I'm Not Much On Gimmicks, But.......

[Illtsate32]

Back in the day they would invert qualifying for the heats then the dash winner would roll dice and whatever number 1-6 they would invert..rows..so if you didnt have a good heat you could still end up on the front row of the feature...the racing was great then stands were packed every week...why not do the same with the touring series? Too much entitlement these days people think races should be handed to them because how much money they have in their car or because of who they are...

[fryefan]

There is a lot to not like about IMCA, but there weekly race format is hard to beat. When they have full fields, the top 12 qualifiers from the heats are inverted for their feature race (based upon season track points) and they have some awesome features as the cream usually rises to the top.

[fryefan]

Back in the day they would invert qualifying for the heats then the dash winner would roll dice and whatever number 1-6 they would invert..rows..so if you didnt have a good heat you could still end up on the front row of the feature...the racing was great then stands were packed every week...why not do the same with the touring series? Too much entitlement these days people think races should be handed to them because how much money they have in their car or because of who they are...

The last sentence of your post says it all.

[zach51]

The MARS racing has indeed gone in the crapper for the most part.

[jeffreymo]

Also, the MARS series switched to the "freight-train" format this year as well and the racing has went downhill in my opinion.

Absolutely.

[Bubstr]

I like the double draw passing points format ad at least a 50 lap race. I believe it actually changes the track, by not running all those time trials on the same groove. It widens the track and helps to eliminate the rubber down groove. The track still has to be prepped right, but it definitely helps those tracks that go south quickly.

As far as 100 lap races. the Knoxville format is the thing. Best of two nights qualifying, points for TT and heat finish and invert 10 in the heats. If you like passing, those heats are the bomb. You still have a hundred laps to make up for any mistakes on qualifying nights on a Saturday track that hasn't been TT on.

There is no one size fits all. Each track holds and gives back moisture at different rates. On can be a bottomless pit for water and another, you can see it seeping to the surface during intermission. Some will need a major overhaul to compete with the supremo tracks.

[coolfool_2]

Gimmicks may work better on the big shows rather than at your weekly shows. We pill draw in our Limited Late class each week and cars seemingly get tore up each Saturday due to drivers starting up front that have no business being up there. At the touring events, at least around here, the locals with no chance of finishing top 10 usually dont show. The best of the best are there racing and seemingly would be able to handle inverts...etc all while giving the fans a better show.

[vande077]

My home track (Knoxville) shook things up this year for our weekly events and it's led to great racing.

All cars time trial, invert of 6 in the heat. You get points for time trials and your heat finish. Features are lined up by total points and the top point guy draws a pill for an invert of 0,4,6 or 8 after the heats are completed.

No one sandbags in Time Trials and the heats mean something. I think one guy has won 7 of his 8 heat races from the 3rd row and has timed in the top 3 every week. He's been fortunate enough to have the 6 invert drawn all but 2 weeks (one week was a 0 and he didn't win, other week was an 8). He's won 3 features this year so far. Another driver with similar TT and heat finishes has won 4 features.

Last weekend a guy won from 9th in the 360 sprint division (18 lap feature), 410 feature winner from front row, but the guys that started on the front row exchanged the lead 20+ times during the first 8 laps of the feature.

[MissouriMadMan]

the mars racing has indeed gone in the crapper for the most part.

mars has only gone down hill since mr. Starr sold it to dirt back around 03. As far as the format change for mlra i was told that the drivers asked for the change because it's wear on equiptment...... I think more fans like passing points and drivers like timing in and straight up top however many straight to the a-main out of the heats.

[klemmabyna]

greatly enjoying this thread and the intelligent discussion.

just a fan in the stands. and I want to watch racers race.

no time trials. pill draw and passing points. USMTS format works great over a complete season.

I understand there is a wide range of track configurations and quality prep. maybe some of those places don't deserve to host big events.

so how about a shortlist of race tracks that consistently provide conditions that allow racers to race from the back to the front?

vande077: only Knoxville fans have it as good as you!!!

[cgrace]

I've seen tons of good racing with both formats. Personally I love the way I-80 does it. BUT, big BUT, their track is racey.If you only use passing points and one heat I've always thought the guys in the middle and back get screwed cause it is quite a bit harder to pass that many cars to gain points depending on the length of the heat. I've seen PLENTY of one groove passing points races which piss me off to no end. Personally I like time trails and a roll of an invert up to four for the heats.I hate it when too many things are left by draw or chance. Don't draw for heat starting and than redraw first and second again in the feature, specially if the heat winner earned it.

[gjohnston]

One of the best late model shows I remember had a unique format where double features were run. They ran twin 30 lappers on a big half mile track. For the first one the line up was set off of the heat races so you had the fast cars lined up towards the front of the first feature. For the 2nd feature they inverted the results from the first by taking the cars still on the lead lap after feature #1 and inverting them in that order for #2. The lapped cars then fell in behind the invert in the order they finished.

I guess it essentially was stage racing but both features had the same base payout for both but there was quite a bit of extra money kicked in based off of the average finish between both races. The same guy won both but in the first he was all out trying to get as many cars lapped as possible. He still had to come from about mid pack to win the 2nd. Obviously it wouldn't work for the larger shows and yes this was gimmicky but it was a gimmick that created one heck of a show.

[vande077]

vande077: only Knoxville fans have it as good as you!!!

I'll readily admit we're spoiled. Makes it really hard to go to other tracks and watch no passing, or lots of dust, or a 2 x6 that you hope will hold your weight to sit on.

Plans are to head out to the Big E next year for the first time since 1988. Everything (except maybe the dust) should be a HUGE improvement over my last trip there.

[klemmabyna]

vande077: been to the late model nationals from day one. seen that track prep guy perform miracles under all different circumstances. he's a genius. simple as that. also noted he sticks around and watches to see if what his crew did worked or not. always admire a craftsman that takes pride in their work. just another part of what makes Knoxville special.

[Illtsate32]

Lots of good points made..the bad thing about track prep and a heavy track is very hard to pass in a 10 lap heat...different formats work better for diff tracks it just obvious that some tracks have the wrong one....

[vande077]

vande077: been to the late model nationals from day one. seen that track prep guy perform miracles under all different circumstances. he's a genius. simple as that. also noted he sticks around and watches to see if what his crew did worked or not. always admire a craftsman that takes pride in their work. just another part of what makes Knoxville special.

Chris Dunkin is the main track prep guy. His father (D!ck) was the track prep guy before I was born, so the same family has been prepping the track for 50+ years now with like a 2 year hiatus around 25 years ago after D!ck passed away and Chris was not working in the area.

Chris' close friends Terry T. and Loren R. helped him for the past 20+ years until Loren's unfortunate passing a few years back. Chris' son, wife and other family members along with Terry T. help to this day and I know some will go home and sleep once the races end and then come to the track in the morning to run the water truck after Chris has used the maintainer and sheepsfoot overnight.

Terry and Chris (and oftentimes his family members) can be seen sitting in the backstretch grandstands at pretty much every event and will begin working the track for the next event within an hour of the checkered flag falling (and this includes weekly racing too) all season. Even after race season is over they work on the track to have it nice and smooth and packed down going into the winter months and start prepping it for weekly races beginning in late March (even though the season doesn't begin until mid-late April) so it's not rutty for the competitors.

Again, we're spoiled here and most local fans are well aware of that fact.

My guess is Chris puts in about 30+ hours himself every week prepping the track for weekly racing (plus the hours everyone else puts in) in addition to his fulltime job at Vermeer in Pella.

[roughride]

I don't mind draws and passing point systems, but the races have to be long enough for things to unfold. The B mains need to be long enough for a good driver and good car to advance as well after a night of bad luck. I do feel like some cars are sandbagging somewhat at the Dream and World recently. There is not much of an incentive to be the fastest car, except to get locked into the race? And if there is not an incentive to be the fastest car, why qualify anyway? I think Eldora could handle a draw and passing point system and then have random redraw so that the best car can start now worse than 8-10th?