How can late model costs be reduced

[ptown]

Starting a new thread to directly address the out of control cost of running a super late model.

I'm not an expert but let's start by getting the body rules back to the way they were in the 90s, plus these new bodies are just plain ugly.

[RCJ]

Motors are the biggest expense

[chad1888]

no shocks or springs behind the axle tubes, motor cost will then take care of themselves.

[DipStik]

.......Boycott!

[vande077]

This is an issue across all divisions of all racing (it's not just late model related).

Costs increase every year across all forms of motorsports from go-karts to F1. No one can control costs although every division thinks they can.

Controlling costs should not be what the promotors and sanctioning bodies focus on. They need to focus on growing the fanbase and putting more butts in the seats. This allows them to increase purses to help offset those increases in the cost to compete the car owners are having.

Unfortunately, most "promotors" do very little promoting to get more fans in the stands and thus purses are stagnant or regressing.

[superstock79]

Everyone thinking they need 6 new, $50k + chassis per year would help with the cost...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

no shocks or springs behind the axle tubes, motor cost will then take care of themselves.

Not true. That doesn't matter.

[Cardirt0]

Cant Will NOT Happen, Greed will not let it happen ,Once you lost control you cant get it back........Nascar Tried and now they have to cause all the money is leaving the sport... They just cut back to Sat and Sunday to save money.. Do nothing on Friday now.. Big names driver are on there way out...Big time pay days are Going Going Gone for drivers...Indy Car is Dead they just dont know it...Nascar and IND racing use to have 10 to 15 cars fighting for the last spot...Nascar maybe 1 car goes home Now.. and the IND cars only race do they get 33 cars is the IND 500 most the time only 22 cars show up... Times are changing and its not coming back....

[Crashmagnet]

You CAN NOT let the inmates run the asylum. A new basic stock car needs developed, one tire, steel body shocks, and a common sense reasonable little motor. It's just laughable and sad what Saturday stock car racing has been allowed to turn into. If you let the people that make money from racing decide what racing is going to be then you get what we have now. We have a few wicked fast super technical racing machines blasting around a little old dirt track a 100 feet apart from each other.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Everyone of these answers has merit. The chassis of today is were cost have gotten crazy. One. They can't take any bumping because something will either break or bend. Two. You almost have to have a engineer today. Chassis simulators, shock dyno's, spring rate checkers. All add up to one thing. They need all of the above to hook up the 800 + HP in the motor they bolt in. I saw a fairly recent pic of Bloomquist shop. In the background I counter 8 or 9 motors. I'm not sure if they were all his, but come on. You eliminate the rear suspension all together in today's cars and go with KISS. Torsion bar, coil over in front of the axle, no more double 5th coils with a chain pulling the center mass of the chassis down. Give them all a 4 " deck spoiler with no wikerbill. Then see if you need those monster motors. You save on motors you save on chassis. The cars are going to look the same, they are the most popular class of racing today, then will see who can and cannot drive a race car. A top of the line motor and chassis alone are knocking on 100k. And that gentleman is stupid. Cya at the world. Millions of dollars will be there for our enjoyment.

[chad1888]

Not true. That doesn't matter.

how does it not matter, you take all the traction out of the car by moving shock in front, you may need 900 hp 430, at the beginning but they guy with a good solid 380 to 400 making about 800 is going to drive by you in the feature everynight.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

how does it not matter, you take all the traction out of the car by moving shock in front, you may need 900 hp 430, at the beginning but they guy with a good solid 380 to 400 making about 800 is going to drive by you in the feature everynight.

The traction doesn't have to leave the car because the spring is in front. It is a simple geometry problem. We have come too far in understanding to let 1995 kill the car.

[chad1888]

The traction doesn't have to leave the car because the spring is in front. It is a simple geometry problem. We have come too far in understanding to let 1995 kill the car.

I agree, but would we rather have 1995 kill our car or our understanding kill our sport. i know as well as other you change this rule you will have many people laying on shop floors trying to figure out how to get the traction back. think about where our understanding has gotten us. started when the spread bore motor came out it should have been outlawed before it got going. so now with 900hp or more we have to figure out how to get it on the ground, which led to better rear traction. then led to trying to seal the car off on the nose for air so they will steer and shocks that will hold a house down in a hurricane. and it hasnt stopped since. i understand our sport is about innovation, i mean there was a couple of cars built that were 4wd, so you just can't stop it, but it just seems like a simple step to help things by moving the shock and spring in front.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I agree, but would we rather have 1995 kill our car or our understanding kill our sport. i know as well as other you change this rule you will have many people laying on shop floors trying to figure out how to get the traction back. think about where our understanding has gotten us. started when the spread bore motor came out it should have been outlawed before it got going. so now with 900hp or more we have to figure out how to get it on the ground, which led to better rear traction. then led to trying to seal the car off on the nose for air so they will steer and shocks that will hold a house down in a hurricane. and it hasnt stopped since. i understand our sport is about innovation, i mean there was a couple of cars built that were 4wd, so you just can't stop it, but it just seems like a simple step to help things by moving the shock and spring in front.

I agree about the wide bore motors. I just think that rule would have little long term effect. I am 100% confident I would be back to speed in a couple weeks.

[ride height]

Here is reality...... I dont care if you held a big wheel tricycle race in a wal mart parking lot.....there will be people show up in stacker haulers with big wheel trikes you wont freakin believe. The people with the money are going to ruin it no matter what. We raced crates when they first came out....it was a ball. Then it started.....big money...cheating out the wazoo...no teching. Now its totally dead in our area.

[Illtsate32]

Everyone of these answers has merit. The chassis of today is were cost have gotten crazy. One. They can't take any bumping because something will either break or bend. Two. You almost have to have a engineer today. Chassis simulators, shock dyno's, spring rate checkers. All add up to one thing. They need all of the above to hook up the 800 + HP in the motor they bolt in. I saw a fairly recent pic of Bloomquist shop. In the background I counter 8 or 9 motors. I'm not sure if they were all his, but come on. You eliminate the rear suspension all together in today's cars and go with KISS. Torsion bar, coil over in front of the axle, no more double 5th coils with a chain pulling the center mass of the chassis down. Give them all a 4 " deck spoiler with no wikerbill. Then see if you need those monster motors. You save on motors you save on chassis. The cars are going to look the same, they are the most popular class of racing today, then will see who can and cannot drive a race car. A top of the line motor and chassis alone are knocking on 100k. And that gentleman is stupid. Cya at the world. Millions of dollars will be there for our enjoyment.

Good post..the shocks are insane with the bump stops and what not..it has taking driving out of the equation..I would say put them on 4 hockey pucks but im sure juicing would run rampant..but 5k shock package prob even more is making the guys who arent rich say the hell with it when they are getting out run by drivers who they know they are better than...

[Josh Bayko]

Every rule ever created to save racers money ends up costing them more in the long run. That's something to consider.

[old17ford]

Down here we run llms and there are some teams that dont care what they pay to win they just have to win at all cost .I have said before that big money teams have killed racing for the die hard racer . I think down here we need a shock and spring rule . Everybody cant buy the new trick thing every mouth .

[ClampedUp]

Every rule ever created to save racers money ends up costing them more in the long run. That's something to consider.

You always say that. So what's your input on how to save dirt late model racing??
Just take a look at the pi$$ poor super late model counts at your area tracks PPMS and Lernerville. Other than Stateline and Eriez the super late model counts flat out $uck in the Western Pa. area.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Lernerville cans the super lates in 2018 and brings in the Rush crate lates.

[Tireguy17]

I do not understand why chassis prices have ballooned out of control in recent years, other than the simple fact that chassis builders have all chosen to simply raise prices. Yes some manufacturers are using some "exotic" tubing, but for the most part, today's chassis is still just a bunch of tubing and brackets like it was 10 years ago. Yet pricing has increased considerably.