Ray Cooks new droop rule

[Bubstr]

This is a prime example of why, only qualified people should even be in the discussion about changing rules. The droop has no direct effect on the center of gravity. Sure if you change nothing else, your center of gravity lowers with the overall height. If you lower total droop and raise ballast, you could get higher center of gravity with a lower lr height. where the center of gravity is, is where the force is projected from, that turns cars over or not. That potential turn overs, don't care what it looks like but where the actual force originates from. The center of gravity. If your only looking to remove down force, remove the spoiler and lower the rear, but that does not prevent roll overs.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

This is a prime example of why, only qualified people should even be in the discussion about changing rules. The droop has no direct effect on the center of gravity. Sure if you change nothing else, your center of gravity lowers with the overall height. If you lower total droop and raise ballast, you could get higher center of gravity with a lower lr height. where the center of gravity is, is where the force is projected from, that turns cars over or not. That potential turn overs, don't care what it looks like but where the actual force originates from. The center of gravity. If your only looking to remove down force, remove the spoiler and lower the rear, but that does not prevent roll overs.

That's why rules don't allow lead above the decking. This is about more than downforce.

Qualified people making DLM rules? That would be a first...

[blncfn57]

You can put the jack under the seat. but, that will not put the car at the same attitude as an underslung.

you're not going to put the jack under the seat in the shop to set droop and max bar angles.... correctly anyway.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

you're not going to put the jack under the seat in the shop to set droop and max bar angles.... correctly anyway.

Been doing it that way since 1995. Why wrong, pray tell?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I am well aware that rr position effects where it ultimately goes. But a reference is a reference.

[Dirtfan04]

Just stop all the BS discussion about this and that and call this rule out for what it really is...... It is an attempt by this series to neuter the 116 car in much the same fashion that the Lucas Oil Series effectively neutered the 6 car after the 2015 season. Lucas also came up with all kinds of bogus reasons (mainly cost control) for making their rule change when anyone with a brain knew the real reason behind the change. That Rumley device was one of the cheapest new additions to late model suspension we have had in past several years, and it could actually be built for a fraction of the cost of a single modern shock. It was simply a smoke screen to derail that team the same way Ray is using the "safety" excuse to derail the 116. If you implement a rule like this in your own series, then fine, you have every right to. But please, have the intestinal fortitude to call it for what it is and admit the real reason you are doing it. Don't continue to insult us with these silly excuses.

[Josh Bayko]

Just stop all the BS discussion about this and that and call this rule out for what it really is...... It is an attempt by this series to neuter the 116 car in much the same fashion that the Lucas Oil Series effectively neutered the 6 car after the 2015 season. Lucas also came up with all kinds of bogus reasons (mainly cost control) for making their rule change when anyone with a brain knew the real reason behind the change. That Rumley device was one of the cheapest new additions to late model suspension we have had in past several years, and it could actually be built for a fraction of the cost of a single modern shock. It was simply a smoke screen to derail that team the same way Ray is using the "safety" excuse to derail the 116. If you implement a rule like this in your own series, then fine, you have every right to. But please, have the intestinal fortitude to call it for what it is and admit the real reason you are doing it. Don't continue to insult us with these silly excuses.

The irony in all of that is Overton has basically the first half of the WoO schedule listed on his website. I’d bet if they’re top three in points at that time (which is really likely IMO) that they’ll just continue following that tour, which won’t leave them mich time to even run Ray Cook’s stuff.

[onlyfacts]

Maybe you should ask Brandon why his schedule has WOO dates... it’s because of these rules that are directly against him. But it will effect others that will not race the Southern Nationals with these rule changes. Anyone that plans to race at select WOO or Lucas races will not support this because you race each race to be better at the next race. With these kind of changes anything learned at a Southern Nationals race will be useless at a WOO or Lucas race or Eldora Races or vs versa. I can’t see anyone that that has a chance to be competive at a lucas, woo or Eldora ever consider getting off base to run Southern Nationals. When rules are this much different it makes it hard to race. You will see promoters of Southern Nationals races getting cold feet when they hear who’s not coming because of these changes. I hate to see Late Model Racing go this direction because we have really good racing today.. we don’t have enough racers left for something like this to give racers reasons not to race or travel to other tracks or series. Brandon Overton is racing WOO because of this move by Ray Cook.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Just stop all the BS discussion about this and that and call this rule out for what it really is...... It is an attempt by this series to neuter the 116 car in much the same fashion that the Lucas Oil Series effectively neutered the 6 car after the 2015 season. Lucas also came up with all kinds of bogus reasons (mainly cost control) for making their rule change when anyone with a brain knew the real reason behind the change. That Rumley device was one of the cheapest new additions to late model suspension we have had in past several years, and it could actually be built for a fraction of the cost of a single modern shock. It was simply a smoke screen to derail that team the same way Ray is using the "safety" excuse to derail the 116. If you implement a rule like this in your own series, then fine, you have every right to. But please, have the intestinal fortitude to call it for what it is and admit the real reason you are doing it. Don't continue to insult us with these silly excuses.

Call me naive, but I don't believe that. There are plenty of cars way up in the air. Sure, the 116 takes it a bit further than most due to ride height manipulation.

[Josh Bayko]

Brandon likes the WoO tour and wanted to go on tour last year, but Weaver wasn’t interested in doing that. I don’t think him starting out with the WoO in 2018 has any relation to this rule, I think it’s more he convinced Randy to let him at least start out with the tour again, and if it goes well, they’ll keep going.

[grt74]

this is easy and they missed it, measure the deck height before the race and them measure from the bumper to the t-bar, right it down, check it at the end of the race(the t-bar measurement, to see if they raised it) problem solved

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

this is easy and they missed it, measure the deck height before the race and them measure from the bumper to the t-bar, right it down, check it at the end of the race(the t-bar measurement, to see if they raised it) problem solved

That's been going on too. But, not what Ray is trying to address.

[grt74]

That's been going on too. But, not what Ray is trying to address.

they also need a ride height rule that would be very easy to do, just like asphalt, a gauge that rolls under the drivers seat (bottom of the roll cage, so its not dragging the ground) both are 10 times easier to check, as far as the roll over deal, i don't see it going away, the problem here is 99% of the cars built have a roll cage that is too short PERIOD, monster trucks weigh a lot more and flip several times,thier drivers walk away!!!!
go to a topless race (I've seen helmets above the cage), if you can't put a 1inch bar across the top of your helmet and measure 3 additional inches to the bottom of the halo,YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH CLEARENCE, they need to address the problem and its a very easy fix but everyone runs from it, when you flip and land on the roof your belts are going to stretch, this fix can be done very easily, weld an additional halo above the existing one(on the old cars) and raise it on the new ones,
now the next complaint will be,"it won't fit in the hauler" get load tires or make rods to lower the car before you load it (rods in place of the shocks)

its an easy fix, but when are the powers to be going to fix it??? its time, all the seats in the world aren't going to keep you from being a yard dart if the cage is to short, not to mention its hell to get out of upside down(because with your helmet on and all the safety stuff), never mind if its on fire
its simple and it blows me away with all the smart guys out there, how this is getting missed

[Hoosier_Dirt]

This is a prime example of why, only qualified people should even be in the discussion about changing rules. The droop has no direct effect on the center of gravity. Sure if you change nothing else, your center of gravity lowers with the overall height. If you lower total droop and raise ballast, you could get higher center of gravity with a lower lr height. where the center of gravity is, is where the force is projected from, that turns cars over or not. That potential turn overs, don't care what it looks like but where the actual force originates from. The center of gravity. If your only looking to remove down force, remove the spoiler and lower the rear, but that does not prevent roll overs.

The shorter chain doesn't allow the rear to get up as high. It's been tested at Tri-County. Speed was the same, car was more stable.

[Dirtfan04]

Call me naive, but I don't believe that. There are plenty of cars way up in the air. Sure, the 116 takes it a bit further than most due to ride height manipulation.

When this rule came out at PRI everyone there was already calling it the Overton amendment,
even Mark Richards

[grt74]

The shorter chain doesn't allow the rear to get up as high. It's been tested at Tri-County. Speed was the same, car was more stable.

i commend ray for what he wants to do, and ill always promote safety, but my question is this, did it make the car safer in the event of a roll over, the answer is no, the car still has a chance to flip and thats where it needs to be safer, (your just not going to stop that completely)
look at go carts, if that theory was correct they would never flip, unfortunately it happens
what needs to be corrected is when it flips (because it will happen from time to time, its uncontrollable)we make the roll cage where we can walk away,(for the most part)
I'm just trying to state facts, to all good luck and have a safe racing season, just my honest opinion
im also for teching cars also

[00Hdmn]

Bayco I believe almost always you are right but in this case it is in fact the reason Overton is starting off on the WoO tour. They posted an interview with Overton and he said it was a big reason they made their decision. I don’t blame them either and I don’t blame Cook, I think something needs to change to make it an even playing field but if the two major series do not embrace it then if your a national competitive team like the 116 team then you can’t take the chance of missing speed.

[onlyfacts]

Ray needs to come clean with the real reason for these rule changes... he is using Saftey as the coverup. The reason is to slow Brandon Overton and a couple other cars. But what he doesn’t get is that 116 would still be fast if he elected to run with the changes because that team is ahead of a lot of other teams in technology. With the rule changes technology will be more important. But for the saftey reasons he is no expert. I seen Jack Sullivan roll a guy over the opposite way. Do you think if that guys Deck was lower it would have kept him from rolling over?

[Illtsate32]

Flat decks 1 inch rake max on deck and roof...I think they need to tame the rf somehow..they collapse it that is just a big of problem as lr..these cars are biting so hard through the corner..even Pierce bounces through the corner with the lr coming off the ground and he dont really have the lr hiked up like most...

[Drop Shock]

The shorter chain doesn't allow the rear to get up as high. It's been tested at Tri-County. Speed was the same, car was more stable.

If the track was wet then the speed should be close to the same. Tell Ray to take an inch and half of drop out of his car and try to compete anywhere in the country on slick feature track conditions.