Ray Cooks new droop rule

[hucktyson]

Where you will see the difference is places like Pittsburgh , Knoxville , eldora etc when it gets slick. The concept that Overton was going to run 5k to win shows 150 miles from home against competition he regularly beats and now he's going to run for 10k plus 1500 miles from home against extremely tough competition over limiting hike is absurd. They need to make the cars 36" front to back period, no dished front ends period. Flat ears on both sides period . That is very easy to tech. People say well if I run a 2000lb zero point my car is going to measure higher right after the race than it will in 5 min .... guess wht dude ??? Either back your rebound off or check your height with your car in the bump stop it's not brain surgery. You guys all throw this stupidity that an engineer with enough money can make a 375 spring without a bump stomp on a shock with a 50 pound zero point that blows off at 250 perform exactly like a stacked spring with a bump stop and a shock that makes 1200lb zero and blows off at 1800 ...... Bull$hit. The only one benefitting by stacked springs and bump stops are the guys selling them , the guys selling coil loaders , the guys selling data acquisition and the guys selling motors. You guys say the same
Cars are going to win no matter what and for the most part I agree ... so why spend 10's of thousands testing all of that stuff only to have the same guys win anyway ?? Just doing the math if your car made 400k in race winnings and you had a paid crew you are LOSING money without sponsors kicking in another couple hundred k. So you make what you call a " business " into what is really just an expensive hobby for anyone outside of Ronnie Stuckey , Bloomquist , Richards and the guys paid to drive lol.

[COKEandaSMILE]

Apparently you have yet to read the Overton interview on DoD, he specifically mentions the reasoning for their decision.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Only facts,

Getting rammed head on is pretty rare. Cars rolling mid turn is not.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Where you will see the difference is places like Pittsburgh , Knoxville , eldora etc when it gets slick. The concept that Overton was going to run 5k to win shows 150 miles from home against competition he regularly beats and now he's going to run for 10k plus 1500 miles from home against extremely tough competition over limiting hike is absurd. They need to make the cars 36" front to back period, no dished front ends period. Flat ears on both sides period . That is very easy to tech. People say well if I run a 2000lb zero point my car is going to measure higher right after the race than it will in 5 min .... guess wht dude ??? Either back your rebound off or check your height with your car in the bump stop it's not brain surgery. You guys all throw this stupidity that an engineer with enough money can make a 375 spring without a bump stomp on a shock with a 50 pound zero point that blows off at 250 perform exactly like a stacked spring with a bump stop and a shock that makes 1200lb zero and blows off at 1800 ...... Bull$hit. The only one benefitting by stacked springs and bump stops are the guys selling them , the guys selling coil loaders , the guys selling data acquisition and the guys selling motors. You guys say the same
Cars are going to win no matter what and for the most part I agree ... so why spend 10's of thousands testing all of that stuff only to have the same guys win anyway ?? Just doing the math if your car made 400k in race winnings and you had a paid crew you are LOSING money without sponsors kicking in another couple hundred k. So you make what you call a " business " into what is really just an expensive hobby for anyone outside of Ronnie Stuckey , Bloomquist , Richards and the guys paid to drive lol.

Who is going to Dyno shocks after a race? Actually, there is one way to do what you call impossible above, but it wouldn't take long to be discovered unless you were very creative.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

When this rule came out at PRI everyone there was already calling it the Overton amendment,
even Mark Richards

That doesn't make it true. I don't recall Overton even stinking up Cook races all that bad compared to what he should. Fact is he belongs on one of the top 2 tours anyway.

[hucktyson]

Let me guess make a canteliver set up that came over and gets stuck in the full compression position ?? Anyway around that shock and spring could quickly be legislated against.

[Jking24]

Personally I'm with Steve Francis if they would go back a couple of years and enforce the rules that were already in place aswell as the ones that are still left in the book most of this wouldn't be possible but they look the other way. calling it the Overton rule is probably fitting because their the team that's pushing it the most but their far from the only ones. But if they won't enforce the rule what does it matter how far someone went in any one direction. I was at the world finals this year and their were probably 20 cars their that would pass every current body rule and non of them made the show. I'm not picking on any one but the 116 was parked right near us their car was in no way legal and they had it toned down a bit from its usual stance but they were allowed to race without issue and i don't blame them or anyone else for pushing were racers that's what we do. I was in tech after Saturday's feature and i promise you non of the top five would've passed an honest tech. I personally don't think the hike is the main contributor to the cars turning over. People just don't work on their cars. every late model has this thing in the middle of the car called a j bar and their are times when it needs moved allot!. Also we've just plain and simple learned how to stick the cars better and people are to lazy or uneducated to free up. If you don't know how to change your car maybe you shouldn't be in a latemodel. Most of the roll overs you see are from exactly what Ray said in his video guys get these newer cars or setups and they don't know how to drive the car for the conditions. Its for this very reason other types of racing have licensing levels in place. I'm not saying we need this but i don't think we need to take the cars back nearly 20 years to accomplish this ray said they took a 1 1/2 of hike or drop what ever you prefer to call it out of the car to make it legal. Well maybe I'm a little behind the curve but that would take the average chassis to a number lower then most of us have ever raced on. What I'm trying to say is since things have started evolving in that direction we haven't added that much hike to the cars the deck is that high through several advancements not just drop. Sorry for the rambling but i really feel he has good intentions but this is the wrong thing to do for his series

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Let me guess make a canteliver set up that came over and gets stuck in the full compression position ?? Anyway around that shock and spring could quickly be legislated against.

I had 2 ideas much more elegant than that. But, sure.

[Illtsate32]

What kind of u-joints do these guys have for the pinion angle they are running with this trend is what I want to know...our used to get eaten alive when we would push the angle...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What kind of u-joints do these guys have for the pinion angle they are running with this trend is what I want to know...our used to get eaten alive when we would push the angle...

The rear joint is actually lined up pretty well.

[Highwayman]

... I personally don't think the hike is the main contributor to the cars turning over. People just don't work on their cars. every late model has this thing in the middle of the car called a j bar and their are times when it needs moved allot!. Also we've just plain and simple learned how to stick the cars better and people are to lazy or uneducated to free up. If you don't know how to change your car maybe you shouldn't be in a latemodel. Most of the roll overs you see are from exactly what Ray said in his video guys get these newer cars or setups and they don't know how to drive the car for the conditions. ...

Randy Weaver knows how to setup a car pretty well, he flipped got a concussion and ended his driving career. Brian Shirley, another accomplished experienced driver, he flipped and got concussion and he knows what he's doing too. Bloomquist, Moyer, Madden, Davenport and the list goes on forever. The best of the best are flipping and its directly linked to the attitude and the height of the mass in the rear of these cars that is causing all the flipping going back to 1998. The increased stick they have accomplished only makes it more likely to happen than it used to. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if you try to run around a corner with a brick held up over your head versus holding it at your gut that the mass of that brick will try and pull you over, its simple physics.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Personally I'm with Steve Francis if they would go back a couple of years and enforce the rules that were already in place aswell as the ones that are still left in the book most of this wouldn't be possible but they look the other way. calling it the Overton rule is probably fitting because their the team that's pushing it the most but their far from the only ones. But if they won't enforce the rule what does it matter how far someone went in any one direction. I was at the world finals this year and their were probably 20 cars their that would pass every current body rule and non of them made the show. I'm not picking on any one but the 116 was parked right near us their car was in no way legal and they had it toned down a bit from its usual stance but they were allowed to race without issue and i don't blame them or anyone else for pushing were racers that's what we do. I was in tech after Saturday's feature and i promise you non of the top five would've passed an honest tech. I personally don't think the hike is the main contributor to the cars turning over. People just don't work on their cars. every late model has this thing in the middle of the car called a j bar and their are times when it needs moved allot!. Also we've just plain and simple learned how to stick the cars better and people are to lazy or uneducated to free up. If you don't know how to change your car maybe you shouldn't be in a latemodel. Most of the roll overs you see are from exactly what Ray said in his video guys get these newer cars or setups and they don't know how to drive the car for the conditions. Its for this very reason other types of racing have licensing levels in place. I'm not saying we need this but i don't think we need to take the cars back nearly 20 years to accomplish this ray said they took a 1 1/2 of hike or drop what ever you prefer to call it out of the car to make it legal. Well maybe I'm a little behind the curve but that would take the average chassis to a number lower then most of us have ever raced on. What I'm trying to say is since things have started evolving in that direction we haven't added that much hike to the cars the deck is that high through several advancements not just drop. Sorry for the rambling but i really feel he has good intentions but this is the wrong thing to do for his series

Where Ray is taking the car is a point where most of them were a couple years ago. Remember, 1.5" at the deck lid is a lot less at the suspension.

[fastford]

Randy Weaver knows how to setup a car pretty well, he flipped got a concussion and ended his driving career. Brian Shirley, another accomplished experienced driver, he flipped and got concussion and he knows what he's doing too. Bloomquist, Moyer, Madden, Davenport and the list goes on forever. The best of the best are flipping and its directly linked to the attitude and the height of the mass in the rear of these cars that is causing all the flipping going back to 1998. The increased stick they have accomplished only makes it more likely to happen than it used to. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if you try to run around a corner with a brick held up over your head versus holding it at your gut that the mass of that brick will try and pull you over, its simple physics.

none of the cars looked in 1998 like they do now , so your saying this rule will not help any , because to me , thats what he is trying to do , take them back to the late 90s and early 2000s .....

[Jking24]

Where Ray is taking the car is a point where most of them were a couple years ago. Remember, 1.5" at the deck lid is a lot less at the suspension.

he said he took 1 1/2 out of the chain witch moved his deck from 51 ton less than 47 a inch and a half out of the chain is allot further than we were a few years ago

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

he said he took 1 1/2 out of the chain witch moved his deck from 51 ton less than 47 a inch and a half out of the chain is allot further than we were a few years ago

Ah. Ok. I misunderstood when I watched the video then. I haven't ever ran less than 6" at the point where you measure ride height. I wonder what he had?

[Jking24]

Ah. Ok. I misunderstood when I watched the video then. I haven't ever ran less than 6" at the point where you measure ride height. I wonder what he had?

I've never measured like that but for example on a rocket car three to four years ago everybody was at 12 3/4-13" now their right at about 14 . No where near a inch and a half. These are blue grey numbers not xr1. They are similar though the frame rail is just in a different location

[hucktyson]

Lol fella are you serious ?? 1 1/4" is just nowhere near the same planet as 1.5" is lol lol lol . That's like 10 inches different !!! That's like Lexington steeles hammer compared to yours !!!

[Jking24]

Lol fella are you serious ?? 1 1/4" is just nowhere near the same planet as 1.5" is lol lol lol . That's like 10 inches different !!! That's like Lexington steeles hammer compared to yours !!!

Thanks for reminding me why i don't usually post on this board. you clearly know allot about latemodels. But because I'm board let me add to my example that 12 3/4 number witch is a 1/2" less than the second number was mostly being run by guys behind the curve 3-4 years ago the later was the norm. but never the less some were still running their and with succes in some cases. But the reason that number was mentioned is because that very number would have been run on practically every rocket car dating back to say a 2000 black front car (and i don't mean the color of his nose hucky) so yes to go a 1/4 inch below that is a little excessive. Thanks for attacking another perfectly constructive conversation with your superior keyboard skills

[hucktyson]

Fella I GUARANTEE you that I am better fabricator than you, I know that because I am the best there is at what I do .... 12.75 and 13" are not 1/2" apart ... maybe you are using special Muslim math with an abacus ... taking a rear deck from 55 or 56 down to 47 is going to slow the cars down on big fast tracks where you stay in the fuel 2" makes a big difference and we're talking more like 9". You can get the same exact amount of rear steer and mechanical loading of the LR with the reduced hike only the car isn't going to have the wedge effect to produce the massive downforce. The slower the cars are the easier it is on motors and the better it is for everyone. This new rule is a great start

[JabberJaws83]

Fella I GUARANTEE you that I am better fabricator than you, I know that because I am the best there is at what I do .... 12.75 and 13" are not 1/2" apart ... maybe you are using special Muslim math with an abacus ... taking a rear deck from 55 or 56 down to 47 is going to slow the cars down on big fast tracks where you stay in the fuel 2" makes a big difference and we're talking more like 9". You can get the same exact amount of rear steer and mechanical loading of the LR with the reduced hike only the car isn't going to have the wedge effect to produce the massive downforce. The slower the cars are the easier it is on motors and the better it is for everyone. This new rule is a great start

Excellent post Huck and I agree. This new wedge has to go and kudos to Ray for starting somewhere