E85 fuel system

[Younggun32]

What are the recommendations/requirements to run E85 in a 604? i know this has probably been brought up before but i couldnt find anything.

[fastford]

carb set up for e85 and knowing for sure your fuel is right , different distributors will vary a little , some times might be e83 , sometimes might be e87 , we use a tester , which is a must , and adjust with with gas or ethanol to be sure were at e85 , I now buy from a distributor next door and they have been dead on for last 2 years , I think there all getting better at controlling it now though , with every thing right it will perform as well or better IMO than racing fuel for about 1/4 the cost......

[brad hibbard]

fastford nailed the 2 biggest requirements for success with E85

specific built carb---NOT a conversion kit or your buddy saying he can drill the jets out

Ethanol content---fastford covered this very well but I just wanted to add this---
if you are buying your fuel a commercial station---depending on what part of the country you are in ---this time of the year you might be getting "winter blend" and that is usually around 70%
it is very difficult to bring the content up

If your plan is to use E85 from the corner station ---take your test tube with you and test some before you buy a large quantity

just my 2 cents
Brad
www.race-1.com

[fastford]

I guess because of the milder temps down here , e85 dont vary as much as up north , plus where i get mine seems to be a better distributor than some others , but like brad said , best to take tester with you and pull a little bit out and ck it first , if its way off , go some where else , thats kinda what i did to start with.....

[Younggun32]

Im going to run renegade just trying to decide on a carb now. thanks for the help guys

[stockcar5]

Ethanol should work well for you. It makes more hp and tq. Over race gas it saved me about $2000 last year in fuel costs.

[CCHIEF]

And your engine will run cooler,I'd run a circulating system. Regulator with bypass/return line.....on any fueled crate car.

[billetbirdcage]

Make sure your foam in cell is E-85 compatible or you will cuss later on. Obviously, you can remove it and use something else for baffles, but be aware normal foam will disintegrate in E-85.

[huckleberry_hound]

we just purchased a new ATL fuel cell and the sticker on it says the foam that's in it is compatible with gas and e85,,,the sticker also shows a different foam to use when running alcohol,( they put a mark beside the foam thats in the fuel cell) so I guessing e85 doesn't have enough alcohol in it to harm the foam thats in this cell? Has anyone ran these cells with this foam and e85 without problems? just don't wanna take any chances, had foam issues with straight alky in the past,,,

[stockcar5]

E85 isnt nearly as hard on fuel system components as methanol is.

[Punisher88]

I run e112 from renegade and have been very happy with it. Instead of being mixed with 93 unleaded it's mixed with 112 leaded fuel. For the exact same cost. When they check e85 they only check the ethanol content or amount. Not the octane.

[stockcar5]

for the same cost as what?

[brad hibbard]

back in the beginning of all this ----I purchased 99% ethanol from a fuel distributor and mixed in 110 leaded race gas to create 85% ethanol
it was absolutely the worst accelerating mixture that I had ever seen

with some research we found that ethanol alone is a slow burning fuel and difficult to get a good burn rate
when gas is introduced to it the gasoline acts as the igniter for the ethanol

high octane (race gas) also has a slow burn rate ----so we attributed our failure of a "special" blend to having 2 slow burning fuels in a low compression engine.

we have used this theory for nearly 13 years now and have had no reason to believe different.

think about this---
northern states go to a winter blend during cold months which is about 70%
this is because the flex fuel cars will not start on 85% in cold weather

here is another example---
just about every time I have a customer call and say they are sluggish on restarts we ask what the content is and they usually have a content around 90%
when we have them bring it down (with cheap pump gas) to 85% the response immediately comes back

our theory has been that the low octane gasoline is what gets the ethanol to accelerate----
we honestly only tested 1 time with high octane gas and formed an opinion ---maybe we should revisit the concept

Brad
www.race-1.com

[stockcar5]

When I switched from race fuel to E85 (pump blend) I noticed a big difference in throttle response. The E85 is night and day better.

[Punisher88]

for the same cost as what?

For the same cost as regular e85. E112 costs the same as e85. Still 85% ethanol but is mixed with leaded 112 race gas.

[Punisher88]

back in the beginning of all this ----I purchased 99% ethanol from a fuel distributor and mixed in 110 leaded race gas to create 85% ethanolit was absolutely the worst accelerating mixture that I had ever seenwith some research we found that ethanol alone is a slow burning fuel and difficult to get a good burn ratewhen gas is introduced to it the gasoline acts as the igniter for the ethanolhigh octane (race gas) also has a slow burn rate ----so we attributed our failure of a "special" blend to having 2 slow burning fuels in a low compression engine.we have used this theory for nearly 13 years now and have had no reason to believe different.think about this---northern states go to a winter blend during cold months which is about 70%this is because the flex fuel cars will not start on 85% in cold weatherhere is another example---just about every time I have a customer call and say they are sluggish on restarts we ask what the content is and they usually have a content around 90%when we have them bring it down (with cheap pump gas) to 85% the response immediately comes back our theory has been that the low octane gasoline is what gets the ethanol to accelerate----we honestly only tested 1 time with high octane gas and formed an opinion ---maybe we should revisit the conceptBradwww.race-1.com

I'm running mine in a 525 and nlms spec head motor so that could be the reason I'm not having any issues.

[fastford]

back in the beginning of all this ----I purchased 99% ethanol from a fuel distributor and mixed in 110 leaded race gas to create 85% ethanol
it was absolutely the worst accelerating mixture that I had ever seen

with some research we found that ethanol alone is a slow burning fuel and difficult to get a good burn rate
when gas is introduced to it the gasoline acts as the igniter for the ethanol

high octane (race gas) also has a slow burn rate ----so we attributed our failure of a "special" blend to having 2 slow burning fuels in a low compression engine.

we have used this theory for nearly 13 years now and have had no reason to believe different.

think about this---
northern states go to a winter blend during cold months which is about 70%
this is because the flex fuel cars will not start on 85% in cold weather

here is another example---
just about every time I have a customer call and say they are sluggish on restarts we ask what the content is and they usually have a content around 90%
when we have them bring it down (with cheap pump gas) to 85% the response immediately comes back

our theory has been that the low octane gasoline is what gets the ethanol to accelerate----
we honestly only tested 1 time with high octane gas and formed an opinion ---maybe we should revisit the concept

Brad
www.race-1.com

Good information Brad , i have often wandered about blending my own with high octane race fuel and if it would be better , but high octane race fuel is slow burn and what you say makes since to me......

[RW57]

I use pump e85 last Fast Ford said take your checker the one time I didn't get some that the delivery man put gas in e85 tank .I put marvel mystery oil in tank for lubrication. When I had valve guide go bad and had heads fixed i asked my machinist to looks very thing over to see if he noticed any abnormal wear he said it looked good I've been on it now for 4 yrs and love it. Made a big difference in my engine.It's a 1500 grenade in a hobby car and regularly pulls 8 to 10 grand motors down the straights.

[stockcar5]

Im surprised a race version of e85 from Sunoco costs the same as regular e85. I pay 1.65 a gallon for e85. Doubt Sunoco is that cheap.

[brad hibbard]

I believe there are a few reasons why race grades of e85 are popular amongst some folks.

in the northern states we have winter blend during the colder months ---which makes it difficult to access a "good pump" blend until late spring or even early summer

another reason is the low volume that some stations sell of e85
most fuel storage tanks are in the ground and vented to the atmosphere
when anything sits idle in the ground for a length of time it will naturally gain moisture
anyone who has tested e85 knows what water and ethanol do when they get together
finding a station that moves a substantial amount of E85 is important
this requires a little research but is not all that hard
we are fortunate in my area that we have a local station that receives two 1000 gal loads per week
I would consider that fresh and we have had no issues with the fuel from this source

another reason is a false sense of security----some believe that if they purchase "race grade" E85 that the content is correct and the blend is permanent
this is not always the case and any stored E85 should be agitated (mixed) before testing and use

I enjoy E85 discussions----it is a great fuel but requires some effort
sometimes it gets a bad reputation but its usually from incorrect components or lack of proper fuel research

Brad
www.race-1.com