Fans want passing, inversions

[Josh Bayko]

The now defunct UFO series never had qualifying & they inverted top 12 in the feature, it was the best late model races I've ever seen, look up the you tube videos or dirt on dirt archives , great racing, do you agree Josh Baylor?

I do. The UFO races were usually excellent. It helped that most of the races were held at tracks that have/had reputations for being really racy. Occasionally there was carnage due to the format (Davey J and Jeep taking all the other cars and each other out in a heat at Challenger comes to mind), but it wasn’t rampant.

But racers themselves aren’t fans of the format. Not even the low budget guys that it’s supposed to benefit. Racers prefer having control of their own destiny.

The happiest medium is group qualifying where you only time vs. the guys in your heat and a random invert chosen after qualifying.

[Pennsboro23]

UFO shows at Tyler County were great.

[Clayton_Wetter]

The Cherokee race was inverted... Didn't fix whats wrong.

There ya go!!!!

[Clayton_Wetter]

You know how stereotypes are... they aren't always true; but start with a kernel of truth. Many Southern tracks prep tracks very hard, and just keep watering the top without working it.

Some tracks up north do that also... and that is not conducive to good racing. Tracks end up slick with no cushion or bite anywhere in the track unless there is some type of rework mid-event. Those kinds of tracks I've seen way more parades on than good racing.

The less bite the cars have the worse the racing is, fact!!

[B_K]

The now defunct UFO series never had qualifying & they inverted top 12 in the feature, it was the best late model races I've ever seen, look up the you tube videos or dirt on dirt archives , great racing, do you agree Josh Bayko?

Most telling part of that entire thing is now defunct.

[Josh Bayko]

Most telling part of that entire thing is now defunct.

There are a few different reasons why it went away. Much of it had nothing to do with the racers or races. And right at the very end, it was going to go to qualifying to set the lineups.

[BTExpress]

I have noticed since I have become a DLM fan over the last few years that the majority of late Model fans see nothing wrong with formats that let the fastest cars start straight up in the heats and the features. Coming from a Big Block Modified and Sprint Car background I find that kind of mentality absurd. Give me some sort of invert and I can guarantee the cream will rise to the top, most of the time, and you will see a better race. I am glad this topic came up because I have been scanning the results from around the country on Dirt on Dirt for the past several weeks and I came to the same conclusion: "Boy a lot of races have been won from the pole recently"

[callmez]

Seems like the last few big races I've been to the driver on the outside has had the preferred lane, which tends to give the fastest qualifier and the heat winners a one-position disadvantage. Seems to me that if you want to give the fast qualifier the advantage, he should get lane choice at the front of the field.

That said, I prefer the invert like WOO does it.

[callmez]

The last few big races I've been to the driver on the outside has had the preferred lane, which tends to give the fastest qualifier and the heat winners a one-position disadvantage. Seems to me that if you want to give the fast qualifier the advantage, he should get lane choice at the front of the field.

That said, I prefer the invert like WOO does it.

[brsteg]

I have noticed since I have become a DLM fan over the last few years that the majority of late Model fans see nothing wrong with formats that let the fastest cars start straight up in the heats and the features. Coming from a Big Block Modified and Sprint Car background I find that kind of mentality absurd. Give me some sort of invert and I can guarantee the cream will rise to the top, most of the time, and you will see a better race. I am glad this topic came up because I have been scanning the results from around the country on Dirt on Dirt for the past several weeks and I came to the same conclusion: "Boy a lot of races have been won from the pole recently"

Sprint car racing in general has a lot more inverts and things and a lot less b!tching about it. You are also right, I've found that the majority of late model fans seem to think that everything should be heads up because "he earned it".

What's kind of funny is that the WoO Sprints may have the best racing going right now and they run heats heads up now, and everyone loves to bash winged sprints as parade cars.

But if you take a hard look at late model racing, the winged sprint and late model heat races all look the same.. fast and spread out without much passing (aero and no traffic). But when it comes feature time and you catch the back of the field.. I think the winged sprints are now more race-able than late models.

I think it's because the sprints are less reliant on track conditions. I've seen some WoO Sprint races that took rubber and in theory locked down but still you could move around and try to pass. Heck I saw Donny pass someone on the outside and outside of the rubber last year like they were tied to a tree for the lead and win.

Just chew on that leather for a bit.

[Josh Bayko]

Sprint car racing in general has a lot more inverts and things and a lot less b!tching about it. You are also right, I've found that the majority of late model fans seem to think that everything should be heads up because "he earned it".

What's kind of funny is that the WoO Sprints may have the best racing going right now and they run heats heads up now, and everyone loves to bash winged sprints as parade cars.

But if you take a hard look at late model racing, the winged sprint and late model heat races all look the same.. fast and spread out without much passing (aero and no traffic). But when it comes feature time and you catch the back of the field.. I think the winged sprints are now more race-able than late models.

I think it's because the sprints are less reliant on track conditions. I've seen some WoO Sprint races that took rubber and in theory locked down but still you could move around and try to pass. Heck I saw Donny pass someone on the outside and outside of the rubber last year like they were tied to a tree for the lead and win.

Just chew on that leather for a bit.

You want to hear sprint car guys bitch?

Go into central PA and ask them about handicapping.

[grt74]

with todays setups its only going to get worse, there is so much traction today that the car has to go where the most traction is (chasing the track) thats why the leader comes up to lap the back of the field and they have trouble doing so

[Illtsate32]

I have noticed since I have become a DLM fan over the last few years that the majority of late Model fans see nothing wrong with formats that let the fastest cars start straight up in the heats and the features. Coming from a Big Block Modified and Sprint Car background I find that kind of mentality absurd. Give me some sort of invert and I can guarantee the cream will rise to the top, most of the time, and you will see a better race. I am glad this topic came up because I have been scanning the results from around the country on Dirt on Dirt for the past several weeks and I came to the same conclusion: "Boy a lot of races have been won from the pole recently"

They used to do a total invert from qualifying so fast time started in the back of thea heat. They would pay fast time though and paid for the handicap (6 fastest). Racing was good and stands were packed drivers manned up and took it as a challenge back then...

The last few big races I've been to the driver on the outside has had the preferred lane, which tends to give the fastest qualifier and the heat winners a one-position disadvantage. Seems to me that if you want to give the fast qualifier the advantage, he should get lane choice at the front of the field.

That said, I prefer the invert like WOO does it.

It was like that at highland speedway for a while when they had the dirt up to the dividers on topa of the wall, guys would slam on the brakes coming to the checkered in the dash to try to get second cause the top was so dominant....

[TBSprintFan]

Sprint car racing in general has a lot more inverts and things and a lot less b!tching about it. You are also right, I've found that the majority of late model fans seem to think that everything should be heads up because "he earned it".

What's kind of funny is that the WoO Sprints may have the best racing going right now and they run heats heads up now, and everyone loves to bash winged sprints as parade cars.

But if you take a hard look at late model racing, the winged sprint and late model heat races all look the same.. fast and spread out without much passing (aero and no traffic). But when it comes feature time and you catch the back of the field.. I think the winged sprints are now more race-able than late models.

I think it's because the sprints are less reliant on track conditions. I've seen some WoO Sprint races that took rubber and in theory locked down but still you could move around and try to pass. Heck I saw Donny pass someone on the outside and outside of the rubber last year like they were tied to a tree for the lead and win.

Just chew on that leather for a bit.

Excellent post, I am a fan of both and when the wife and I travel to races she will mostly want to watch sprints because of more passing in the features by the sprints. We find that there are more train races in late models. The best thing that we both would like to see is to get away from time trials and go with a draw system for the heats and then use passing points in the heats to line up the a and b features. Also we needs more rule changes to the bodies of the late models to make them less aero dependent and harder tires in both late models and sprints (sprints need smaller wings) to take away the need for all the expensive horsepower.

[No_Weak_Links]

There ya go!!!!

The Cherokee race was not inverted. The WOO does the same format everywhere. Marlar had the 2nd best car. Overton passed 4-5 cars to take the lead before cutting down tire. Madden and clanton swapped 2nd many times before the end. Sheppard passed a ton of cars. When the checkers flew Marlar had a straightaway on 2nd. You and cage have no idea what your talking about so there ya go!!!!

[Clayton_Wetter]

The Cherokee race was not inverted. The WOO does the same format everywhere. Marlar had the 2nd best car. Overton passed 4-5 cars to take the lead before cutting down tire. Madden and clanton swapped 2nd many times before the end. Sheppard passed a ton of cars. When the checkers flew Marlar had a straightaway on 2nd. You and cage have no idea what your talking about so there ya go!!!!

Cage, did you mislead me???? hahahahaa

[EvelB7]

Someone said that not 1 driver has ever wanted inverts.... I have ran for 30 yrs and will tell you I wanted inverts (and not because I am a so-so qualifier). It is called racing (not qualifying), and the driver side loves the competition. The only reason a driver does not like inverts is if he is there for the money (and I do not blame them)!

[brsteg]

It is called racing (not qualifying)

The variation of this that I like is: "That's why it's called racing, not winning."

[johnE]

Set the front of the Main with a Dash for the top 5 qualifiers, inverted to run this Dash.

Pay a fast qualifier bonus, pay to win the dash, and pay the fast qualifier an escalating amount for each car he passes in the Dash.

Then do the same for Qualifiers 6-10.

[a25rjr]

Sooooooo.....the guys that work their butt off, during the week, to build a better mousetrap, some of you want to penalize them?

As a fan and crew member, I want to see my guy be the fast qualifier, win his heat race, and hopefully, lap the field if the feature.

But, I don't mind the WOO format, that's enough of an invert for me!