Tires: there has to be a better solution

[klemmabyna]

I know. another thread. but...

the current system is broken. I am just a fan in the stands. on the other hand I do have some background in lab testing procedures in a different sport.

the problem as I see it is whatever is happening now is creating more problems than it is solving.

questions: do the top teams in the sport really believe it is worth the risk to screw with tires? I don't get it. the tire cheaters should all be at the regional/local scene where tire testing is nearly non-existent. why would the top talent in this sport risk it when they are well aware that tires will be tested?

am I just naïve? and if so, are the current rules made to turn me, a lifelong fan, away from the sport? cause I certainly am not enjoying the path we are on.

the lab: my history: bid based selection. but spiked and clear samples were sent and an audit of procedures performed before the contract was offered and the lab had to be re-certified every year.

I don't believe any lab in the testing business would risk reputation due to falsification. chain of custody? only comes into play before the sample is delivered to the lab. my background is urine testing. maybe this sport doesn't fit the testing model because of custody of the tires or the exposure to other contaminants not administered by the race teams?

open to suggestions to fix this problem. or maybe it's just me that thinks there is a problem. call me stupid if I can't believe the top teams have to cheat, but the list of names linked to doping tires is a who's who of the sports biggest stars. and honesty here, if it's that rampant, turn it loose so the honest guys are playing on a level field.

JMO
Tracy Williamson
Delavan, WI
(ex-Prescott,IA)

[Stefan2k4]

In almost all circle track racing, tires are huge. And in dirt track racing where track conditions change more rapidly and grip is less, they are even more important. So, yes tires are a big deal and are an area where a team can gain a huge advantage. Racing is always about pushing the limits and that surely applies to tires as well as everything else. I don't doubt that most teams are probably doing some things to their tires to improve their performance. Do some of them resort to chemicals? It's not inconceivable. Remember 46 tires were tested. Only one failed. I don't know if that necessarily means there are problems with the testing or if one team just pushed the limit a bit too far. Of course, the teams who get busted deny guilt, just like everyone in prison is totally innocent and wrongly convicted.

[chathamracefan]

I’m just a fan but it seems to me we need an approach like lucas used at the north south a couple years ago where the teams had To mount the left rear right before the race. I believe it was provided at that time and not before to the teams. This approach could work for the big events I think. Would take some organization and increases the cost some

[tsand]

giving tires before the feature does not solve the problem. Bobby tire sample was taken after the heat race. if you check when teams are caught it is almost always in the heats or after qualifying. being a 100 lap race soaking a tire doesnt help you in fact it may do more harm than good.

[Jim11h]

Depends what soaked with. Some chemical are used to make hard tire fire quicker but not alter compound and some soften

[Stefan2k4]

First of all, when we ask the question is there a better way, to answer that, we'd have to know the current way and if it's flawed. The truth is we don't. A lot of what goes on here and other social media sites is pure speculation and hearsay. All we really know is that 46 tires were sampled and one of those failed. From that alone, we really cannot access whether the test is accurate or not. The problem is people have their favorites and they have their bias and prejudice based on that. Fans of the 32 car are naturally going to want to believe the test was somehow flawed and that Bobby was "robbed". The thing is those same people probably would have been singing a very different tune had that failed tire come off of the 0 car and this kind of lack of objectivity prevents us from having any kind of serious discussion about the whole issue of tire testing. And we saw the exact same thing a few days earlier with Bloomquist shoulder injury/drug test incident. Once again people were basing their entire opinion on Hearsay, speculation, and their own personal prejudice. Anyway, even if we could get past all that, we still don't know anything about the testing procedure. WRG will not tell us the exact procedure. And they probably have very good legitimate reasons for not doing so. Why would they have good reason to not reveal the details of their test? Because that information could be used by teams looking to subvert the test and get away with "altered" tires.

[Illtsate32]

Ya and who actually said 46 tires were sampled? Did wrg woo or ump come out and say that? Wheres their statement on that? Or are you going off a 4m Bloomer fan that said that...

[Highside Hustler25]

Ya and who actually said 46 tires were sampled? Did wrg woo or ump come out and say that? Wheres their statement on that? Or are you going off a 4m Bloomer fan that said that...

46 tires were tested per WRG penalty report.

Come on, even you know a Bloomquist fan can't count to 46

[flagone]

There is no secret about tire testing.

Obtain the sample. (In my case our official does not touch the tire or the sample.)

Send to lab in sealed vial in a sealed evidence bag.

Lab use mass spectrometer to analyze samples.

Lab compares sampleS to manufacturer provided benchmark samples which are based on date codes on the tire.

Lab certifies that sample either does or does not match the benchmark sample.

What the lab does is cut and dried. It is science. There isn't a flaw in that. I am so sick of reading and hearing blame on the lab. The lab is not the problem. People have vilified something that they know nothing of simply because the don't know better. The lab in question in fully accredited and bonded. They cannot get and maintain this if they are not competent. They have many high profile clients including the USDA, State of NC, NASCAR and many others which require precision and accuracy.

Any flaws in the process would be in the collection and handling of a sample, inaccurately recorded data (tire compound and date code) or incorrect benchmarks.

I know the DBM team is of the highest integrity and I don't believe Pierce needs to dope his tires.

My concern in sampling has always been with any Spec tire. I have never asked Shanon or Scott or any of the manufacturers. But I wonder if its possible that the Spec tires (aka hamburger of racing tires) may have variations in formulation within a batch sometimes. I don't know if this is possible. It just seems that all the issues have been with Spec tires (LMs, Spec or Crate).

[kazual]

Good post Klem. This occurrence has caused me to rethink my usual thoughts on teams that wah, wah, wah when getting caught. I’m not a Pierce fan after the tee shirt deal but no doubt enjoy seeing him race. But makes zero sense for DBM to cheat at this venue and at that point in the program, just doesn’t. There has to be a better way.

[brsteg]

The better solution would be for Hoosier to sell a tire that was worth a d@mn; but then they wouldn't make as much money. So they make tires that fall off and won't re-fire so that you buy more.

[Kromulous]

Better way? Dont cheat like Boooby Pierce LOL !!!

[Barbecueboy]

The better solution would be for Hoosier to sell a tire that was worth a d@mn; but then they wouldn't make as much money. So they make tires that fall off and won't re-fire so that you buy more.

I've heard that somewhere before ....

Maybe they can just quit lobbying the series for the tire rule and put to bed the myth that the tire chemicals used to treat tires are anymore dangerous than 1/2 the other liquids, solvents, oils and fuels that everyone on a team is exposed too daily.

It's all about selling more tires.....tail wagging dog or as someone else once said, the dealers writing the drug laws.....makes zero sense.

Bye bye tire rule or bye bye big time dlm racing......people are sick of the tire crap.

[Mams]

Quick question ... do WoO sprint drivers get busted for tire doping? I don’t follow sprint cars as closely as l follow late models.

[Barbecueboy]

I googled tire infactions and dqs for woo sprint cars and nothing came up on the first 6 pages.....all that popped up were violations for the late models.

Guess the sprint guys don't cheat tires, smdh??

[Pennsboro23]

I don't follow sprints like I do late models but I do keep up with it some. I've not heard of anyone getting busted for tires in sprints...

[a25rjr]

I googled tire infactions and dqs for woo sprint cars and nothing came up on the first 6 pages.....all that popped up were violations for the late models.

Guess the sprint guys don't cheat tires, smdh??

Not sayin he does or doesn't, but Schatz been purty good the past few years! js

[MRM]

flagone is right about the credibility of the labs. I don't see how they have a dog in the fight.

Regarding the failed tests, I don't know if any of these drivers are cheating on tires or not. I have heard from other drivers and series officials from various series that some tests are being affected when cars run though something on the racetrack such as oil, break fluid, or other chemicals.

As another person said, the tire deal they tried at Florence a couple of years ago worked as far as everybody running legit tires. I've said for many years the only way to truly eliminate it is to issue tires at the track. But many drivers and fans do not want this. I'm not sure if people's opinions are finally starting to change on this.

[usac7]

I agree with flagone on this. I don't think there is any issue with the lab, and if the racers say they know they did not alter the tire, then it begs the question what happened?

The big question for the racer is did I get a bad tire? When Bloomquist and Owens we found wrong a while back I heard mention they were using tires purchased a couple years prior, so they were right to ask did the manufacturer change anything from the tires I bought to the tires that were sampled as the control?

Maybe the racers need to ask the manufacturer and re-sellers of the tires to step up at the time the tire is purchased, take a sample and seal it while the tire is in the view of the seller and the racer. The racer then holds that sealed sample, until the tire is used in a race and the promoter/sanction asks to test the tire. The racer can then ask for their sealed sample from the time of purchase be tested along with the post race sample taken.

May not solve the problem, but at least if the racer knows they did not alter the tire, and the test shows the post race and time of purchase samples match but don't match the lab's control sample at least it proves the racer did not alter the tire.

Just a thought

[MI Dirt Fan]

I've seen guys in the past post a pic or tweet a comment something about tires were delivered from Hoosier. Now do they mean an actual trailer from Hoosier delivered them or a Hoosier tire supplier delivered them. Can't you order tires from a catalog or online from a parts/supply distributor like Speedway motors for example? I thought I at least saw mod tires there yrs back.