Jay D!ckens Facebook post - Good Read on cost.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I am not stuck in the 90s. It was a much better body as far as downforce goes.

Never singled you out based on your comment.

[ride height]

I’m usually on the side of..” The Whole thing is out of control”..however I guess if you’re honest about it..this is major league late models...it’s not FOR everybody.. it’s for the best. I was pretty bad ass baseball player in my day, but I didn’t make MLB..no way. it was over my head. Like the weekly local racing hero...it’s over his head. I stand by my previous statement.. the big boy late models will end up being maybe 30 ( big league teams. The elite...talent..AND money. The horses are out of the barn...you ain’t getting them back in...it’s over as far as technology/ money....it always wins

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Everything Jay said is true.. everyone and their mother agrees with 100% of what he said. The issue is, everyone already knows this! Acknowledging that there is a problem without providing any ideas on how to fix said problem doesn't fix anything!

And that's the biggest problem.. no one knows how to fix it. The second biggest problem is: if someone did know how to fix it, 3/4 of the sport would whine at him/her until they gave up because no one agrees on anything. We will ride it out for another 5-10 years until it dies completely then find something else to do

I think there are multiple valid paths to fixing it. The problem is the will to do it and a consensus.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Ride height,

Your view is fine if WoO and Lucas do their own things and all the other late models do something else. Right now, it isn't that way.

[dirty-white-boy]

Didnt Vic Hill just have story about the cost of racing and now another engine builder is talking about costs...all the while charging as much as they possibly can to the racers.

Jay did not offer any solutions. It was nothing more than just words. Reminded me of Washington DC. Alot of hot air about subjects we already know about.

Be a game changer, be the change.

Be Tesla, be Uber, be AirBnB. Be the company/person that changes an industry.

Maybe Cody has something up his "Million" dollar sleeve?

[ride height]

Ride height,

Your view is fine if WoO and Lucas do their own things and all the other late models do something else. Right now, it isn't that way.

Oh I know...weekly late models is screwed. We’ve all but lost those here in my area. Some steel block lates here and there but it’s pretty well toast. They tried crates, but they didn’t tech and it got beyond stupid on spending.

[powerslide]

I agree with the path of taking away traction, be it spoiler/body(lower deck height), tires, suspension. If you cant hook up 900hp you don't have to buy it.

[Josh Bayko]

True. But, we might as well fix it with a big hammer cause the cars will creep back this way again. We need a wedge car to UMP car type enema for the sport.

Here's what I'd do, and it wouldn't even change the look of the cars that much.

Straighten the noses.

Make the ears equal on both sides, max 1" higher than the filler panel.

Make the deck and doors flat as a pancake from the back of the hood to the spoiler.

Doors, quarters, and skirts have to be equal height on both sides.

Flat and level roof.

Fill in the sail panels, if you want a window, it's gotta be covered with lexan.

cut the spoiler down to 4".

You could tech all of this with a tape measure and a level.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Didnt Vic Hill just have story about the cost of racing and now another engine builder is talking about costs...all the while charging as much as they possibly can to the racers.

Jay did not offer any solutions. It was nothing more than just words. Reminded me of Washington DC. Alot of hot air about subjects we already know about.

Be a game changer, be the change.

Be Tesla, be Uber, be AirBnB. Be the company/person that changes an industry.

Maybe Cody has something up his "Million" dollar sleeve?

Almost like they are complaining because they are making too much money.

[powerslide]

Almost like they are complaining because they are making too much money.

I have a feeling its the opposite. They have less of a market now because of fewer cars, they charge more now but have less products to sell to people. He knows his product is dying and they need to get more customers back somehow

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Here's what I'd do, and it wouldn't even change the look of the cars that much.

Straighten the noses.

Make the ears equal on both sides, max 1" higher than the filler panel.

Make the deck and doors flat as a pancake from the back of the hood to the spoiler.

Doors, quarters, and skirts have to be equal height on both sides.

Flat and level roof.

Fill in the sail panels, if you want a window, it's gotta be covered with lexan.

cut the spoiler down to 4".

You could tech all of this with a tape measure and a level.

That's a good start and not hard to implement. I just want to go more because the suspension is so much improved. And will be moreso once down force is removed.

[Zonks32x]

[QUOTE=thexfactor0210;2216851]Jeff Rine is also a weekly racer who won a WoO race at Port Royal last year. Kenny Pettyjohn won a WoO race a couple years ago at Volusia. AJ Diemel won the Lucas race at Oshkosh two years ago.[/QUOT

I wouldn't consider Diemel a local racer. AJ has scaled back this year, but he has raced all over the Midwest in both open and wissota cars. And Oshkosh (now closed) was never a weekly LM track. They ran 2 LM specials a year for about 4 years.

The "common" detail I see with many (not all) of the wins, or near wins, by local drivers is PA/IL

Makes sense b/c those 2 states have strong weekly LM racing at more than one track.

Pettyjohn in FL is a nice win too...but that's 1 out of how many speedweeks races...

[NormP]

You can't fault Jay D1ckens or Vic hill for the cost of their engines. It's basic capitalism--what will the market bear? If no one buys their engines at $55,000, then they will either stop making engines or drop the price. The blame lies as much with the people buying the engines at that price as anything.

[bullring]

I argued with guys many years ago about cutting costs for weekly racers when they were complaining tracks don't pay enough for what they have in their cars. I said weekly tracks can't pay enough when guys are running equivalent to what Steve Kinser or Sammy Swindell or Billy Moyer or Scott Bloomquist are running. Nobody wanted to hear that. And tracks continue to close.

[Zonks32x]

1) Lower the spoilers
2) Get control of the nose pieces
3) Fill in the sail panels
4) Take all the flare out of the side of the cars

We can say what we want about engines, (racing has always been about finding more speed) but when DLM teams started spending crazy time/$$$ in wind tunnels to find said speed...that's when the train left the rails.

And now it's crazy $$ in aero/engines/shocks to get the new & improved spaceship around the racetrack.

[weatherman85]

This thread is a perfect example that this problem will likely never get fixed until it's too late. No one can agree on a solution. Enjoy the races you can get out and see as much as you can while you can!!!

[RRRKKK]

I disagree with Jay completely, if you want spec racing go to IMCA (like watching paint dry) Years ago we ran NASCAR bush dirt, limit small 390CFM carb. Those carbs got to be as high at 10K. Ridiculous yes but if a racer thinks it will be an advantage, he will pay the price. The best rules are NO RULES. I don't go as often as I used too but I'll still drive several hours to see a WOO or Lucas. Last year at Jacksonville IL after the WoO race the promoter asked if they wanted another race even though the gen adm was going to be $50.00 the crowd unanimous in wanting the race.

[Josh Bayko]

That's a good start and not hard to implement. I just want to go more because the suspension is so much improved. And will be moreso once down force is removed.

This is a fair point, but the smart guys are going to figure it out regardless of how far we take the bodies back or slim them down.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I have a feeling its the opposite. They have less of a market now because of fewer cars, they charge more now but have less products to sell to people. He knows his product is dying and they need to get more customers back somehow

Possibly but I dunno because Vic Hill is building engines for all different motorsports not just DLM. He's all over the motorsports market. I'm not sure if Jay D!ckens is though.

[tb1545]

I think Vic Hill has been spending time around the off road trucks scene in the last few years tending to the engines hes been building for those guys and sees the Truck offroad series as being the future of open late models at the current rate. Trucks are a traveling series only and only 30-40 teams with the budget and money to compete in that series with no local racing/ support really at all.