Weekly Racing / Josh King / Changes need to be made

[Josh Bayko]

If you compare many of the 'bolt on parts' many are still affordable. Seats are another one, ever price a full containment seat today.

Safety isn't the place to try and save money, though.

[billetbirdcage]

For the most part engine cost is the #1 cost to teams. (purchase and rebuild costs) and #2nd is labor for crew (touring guys) and #3 may be tires.

Talking the national touring stuff here not weekly racing: You need the high HP engines for qualifying and partially because the bodies and soft tires. Remove those 2 things and you can start to remove some of the need for the high HP engines.

Obviously this can cause other issues and may effect racing for the good or bad, so not saying it's a fix all for sure but limiting the traction thru tires and aero would be a start without flat outlawing engines that all the top guys have (huge cost to replace all this stuff).

[thexfactor0210]

I remember when Steve Francis became technical director Lucas Oil he talked about wanting to reign costs in and help put the smaller budget guy. One of his big things was reigning in the bodies. I have not seen any progress since he got promoted to that position.

[Barbecueboy]

And you won't......until they let him.

[victorylane]

Maybe that's what Lucas Oil Series and WoO want. To be the only true Super late models in the country. Maybe 20-25 cars touring with each. Who knows but with the way costs have gone up it could happen. I really hope not.

[MRM]

For the most part engine cost is the #1 cost to teams. (purchase and rebuild costs) and #2nd is labor for crew (touring guys) and #3 may be tires.

Talking the national touring stuff here not weekly racing: You need the high HP engines for qualifying and partially because the bodies and soft tires. Remove those 2 things and you can start to remove some of the need for the high HP engines.

Obviously this can cause other issues and may effect racing for the good or bad, so not saying it's a fix all for sure but limiting the traction thru tires and aero would be a start without flat outlawing engines that all the top guys have (huge cost to replace all this stuff).

Don't forget the cost of a new roller. Teams are spending $20k-$30k on a roller that just needs an engine, transmission, and rear end. It wasn't that long ago a roller could be had for much less. I remember a buddy buying a new bare chassis for $2,500 about 20 years ago and we put the body and everything on it. I bet he didn't have $10k in the car racing for $1,200 to win back then too.

[ride height]

Weekly Late Models at your home track....that’s just about over, if not already. No average working family that knows it’s way around a tool box can afford that. Even with a couple sponsors, and that was always the majority of the Saturday nite rumbles of summer. Motors are completely ridiculous...only to be outdone by shocks. The whole thing is so out of control, I don’t see how in the world to get if fixed. They tried crates...what a joke...the cheating was off the charts. No real tech. Chinese seal bolts..I could write a book. Possibly simple rules like cheap claim shocks and chassis rules that take the motor factor away from traction. Maybe. But it would be nice if someone could come up with something that puts Joe Middle Class back in the seat of a family race car. Who doesn’t like late models on a Saturday nite?

[victorylane]

Steve Francis fell in line to keep them paychecks and insurance coming. Do they check the LR component weight deal anymore or is that not even a rule anymore? and do they check tires anymore?

[dirtcrazy4u]

Josh I agree 100% on safety. Seats today are far superior than in my day. I had a 15 1/2" Kirkey w/ a rib extension. Guys would bend the extension outward and place more padding in there. How smart where we. Weakening the seat the way we did, stupid yes, but I'll tell ya it hurt a lot less with the extra padding.

As for steve francis, his first race was GIS, February 2018. He had guys scrabbling to get bodies back within the rule book. Where he stands today, has lucas reeled him in ? We will never know, I don't believe that they have, BUT ?

[thexfactor0210]

Don't forget the cost of a new roller. Teams are spending $20k-$30k on a roller that just needs an engine, transmission, and rear end. It wasn't that long ago a roller could be had for much less. I remember a buddy buying a new bare chassis for $2,500 about 20 years ago and we put the body and everything on it. I bet he didn't have $10k in the car racing for $1,200 to win back then too.

I raced a late model in the mid 2000's. We had a complete car, motor, and everything for around 25k total. We worked overtime and saved up to be able to do it. We ran anywhere from 6th to 10th every week against a full field of weekly late models. I now make more money than I ever have but we still could not afford it. My father and I realize it is just not worth it to spend 100k or better to be competitive. Also, about 5 tracks close to us closed up so we have limited options as well. It really sucks.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Just listened to Josh King's interview on DoD. He basically eas asked if weekly racing can survive and did not sound very optimistic about it. He said the ones in charge do not eant to make the necessary changes. Why can we not do something to save this sport???

I personally do not want to see 20 cars for every normal Lucas show with no weekly or regional guys to cheer for. It seems as if they are afraid to make changes and adapt. I know it will not be a true open late model but it is time to outlaw wide bore motors and these crazy shocks. Get the motors back down to 20,000 and shocks for 100 each or in that neighborhood. I recently saw a Chris Simpson post where he said the motor he was selling would be 60,000 new!!!

What is everyone's thoughts and why haven't we seen any changes? I know this topic has been discussed over and over but I feel it needs to be. If Florence struggles to fill a weekly program like they are it is nearing the end for weekly late models.

There is a fan count issue that figures in. How is that addressed?

But 12 Late Models last weekend. That has to be an all time low.

[big willy]

That has a lot to do with it. Thing is, if you change noses, everybody is gonna have to buy new ones anyways. I don't think they've realized that yet. There's good money to be made in saving racers money on bodies.

You don't have to do anything to the nose other than putting a (6" x 24"?) hole in it to kill the aero. Put a hole in it and the rest of the nose issues may become irrelevant. With that in place, nobody has to purchase anything new...

[Shiny Side Up 18]

Welcome to "The Next Level".

[Clayton_Wetter]

You don't have to do anything to the nose other than putting a (6" x 24"?) hole in it to kill the aero. Put a hole in it and the rest of the nose issues may become irrelevant. With that in place, nobody has to purchase anything new...

What about the dirt and mud?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I raced a late model in the mid 2000's. We had a complete car, motor, and everything for around 25k total. We worked overtime and saved up to be able to do it. We ran anywhere from 6th to 10th every week against a full field of weekly late models. I now make more money than I ever have but we still could not afford it. My father and I realize it is just not worth it to spend 100k or better to be competitive. Also, about 5 tracks close to us closed up so we have limited options as well. It really sucks.

You can spend much, much less to achieve that level of success, but you better have a sharp mind and able to do stuff yourself.

[thexfactor0210]

You can spend much, much less to achieve that level of success, but you better have a sharp mind and able to do stuff yourself.

We did everything ourselves from bodies to tires. I just dont know if that many people can spend time not making money to do this

[kidrock]

And you won't......until they let him.

Agreed.............................

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Safety isn't the place to try and save money, though.

Not usually, however, there have been costs imposed for things that are either well beyond what is necessary, or where cheaper solutions to bigger risk items, in a given system, were ignored.

For instance, we have seats that can hold up to g forces seen when a cup car hits a wall. We don't have the speed or the lack of energy absorption in our chassis. That same seat holds your head perfectly vertical in a car that has inadequate headroom in a rollover. Your chance of a compression fracture in your spine is very high.

We have to buy an expensive, soft bladder fuel cell. However, there are zero rules about the type of fuel fittings used in the system. Little inspection of mounting the cell is done.

[dirtcrazy4u]

MastersBuilt, you say that and it made me think of a race I saw on Mav tv. I forget where, michael page got upside down, I would consider it a soft rollover. Track personal righted the car and this young man struggled to get out of the car. Had this been a serious deal. He was toast, period. The seats, bodies, opening would have never let him escape.

I remember Mike Duvall always had the drivers side door panel cut lower so he could get in and out easier.

I think the cars of today look darn good. Do they need to make adjustments so guys can get out in a emergency, yes. If that means lowering left side sheetmetal then so be it. But something should be done before someone like page gets involved in a serious situation.

[kazual]

The national touring teams and drivers don’t want local cars at their events. And with the inmates running the prison the series higher ups go along.