Thoughts. After having a talk with Moyer’s crew chief at the World 100 Saturday......

[stewart fan]

Who was the first guy to run with the rf pinned down?

[hardracer32]

stewart fan,

the first car that I ever noticed was Bloomquist, I remember several years back being at the Dixie Shootout and noticing that the attitude of his car was different than everybody elses. The track was rough and his car was gliding over the holes and left rear never went down, it always stayed up in the air. I think he was one of the first to really figure it out. He also won that night. Probably just like a lot of other things, other folks started to notice he was doing something different and they all started figuring out how to make the cars behave like that. I'm not a huge Bloomquist fan, so don't mistake this for fanboy B.S., but I do believe if he wasn't the first he was one of them.

[dirty-white-boy]

stewart fan,

the first car that I ever noticed was Bloomquist, I remember several years back being at the Dixie Shootout and noticing that the attitude of his car was different than everybody elses. The track was rough and his car was gliding over the holes and left rear never went down, it always stayed up in the air. I think he was one of the first to really figure it out. He also won that night. Probably just like a lot of other things, other folks started to notice he was doing something different and they all started figuring out how to make the cars behave like that. I'm not a huge Bloomquist fan, so don't mistake this for fanboy B.S., but I do believe if he wasn't the first he was one of them.

Isnt that when he was supposedly running an F1 type of ride height deal in the car from Penske Shocks? Something will pull rods or cross connecting shocks?

[Josh Bayko]

Isnt that when he was supposedly running an F1 type of ride height deal in the car from Penske Shocks? Something will pull rods or cross connecting shocks?

Inerters are what you’re thinking of.

[victorylane]

You can have all the rules in the world but they aren't worth a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) thing unless they are enforced. Steve Francis has fell right in line so he keeps his job. It would not be difficult or expensive to reel the cars back in to where you don't need 950 hp to Time Trial or Heat Race.

Stack springs, bump springs, bump stops are not expensive but the time it takes to try and figure out the combination for them is very expensive. If you take the RF travel and LR Hike away before and after the race it will greatly effect the amount of traction/downforce available. Huck has some good ideas but until tech guys are actually able to enforce the rules it will not matter what rules are changed.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You can have all the rules in the world but they aren't worth a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) thing unless they are enforced. Steve Francis has fell right in line so he keeps his job. It would not be difficult or expensive to reel the cars back in to where you don't need 950 hp to Time Trial or Heat Race.

Stack springs, bump springs, bump stops are not expensive but the time it takes to try and figure out the combination for them is very expensive. If you take the RF travel and LR Hike away before and after the race it will greatly effect the amount of traction/downforce available. Huck has some good ideas but until tech guys are actually able to enforce the rules it will not matter what rules are changed.

People have been running those "scary" bumpstops, springs, etc so long now they are very mundane and not a big deal.

[Mike]

You can have all the rules in the world but they aren't worth a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) thing unless they are enforced. Steve Francis has fell right in line so he keeps his job. It would not be difficult or expensive to reel the cars back in to where you don't need 950 hp to Time Trial or Heat Race.

Stack springs, bump springs, bump stops are not expensive but the time it takes to try and figure out the combination for them is very expensive. If you take the RF travel and LR Hike away before and after the race it will greatly effect the amount of traction/downforce available. Huck has some good ideas but until tech guys are actually able to enforce the rules it will not matter what rules are changed.

Cars were out of hand long before Steve took that job with Lucas. Myself and a few others told everyone on here the direction aero/downforce was heading at least 10 years ago. If you really thought Lucas would allow any reigning in you must not have been paying attention. Remember the big test they conducted years ago at Florence Speedway looking at ways to reduce cost? The only major thing that came out of that was a tire rule that was going to "save weekly racing" SMH They continued to allow body mods that produced more and more downforce to the point we have the modern day wedge.

Lucas has no incentive to reign things in. They get money from people who manufacture and/or sale some of the high dollar parts people are complaining about in the form of sponsorship for the series. Fans and regional/local drivers continue to support them while complaining about things getting out of hand. As long as the sponsorship money and the fan/competitor support continues nothing is going to change.

[Kromulous]

Mike nailed it, look at it from the Top down. Everyone see's this argument from the weekly racer perspective, but if you look from the Top down you will see no one wants to rock the boat. They have sponsors that are rolling out the $$, the crowds are huge, especially at Crown Jewel races, and you have plenty of high dollar Teams at this point to support your Entertainment package. Life is a bowl of cherries right now, and there making plenty of $$ and even more coming in soon with a broader TV package. Its only going to get more and more expensive from here.

Essentially that is what we are supporting, an Entertainment venue / business. The cost will continue to drive out the lower priced Teams, it will end up just like the NHRA Fuel Teams, a few multi car teams with all the $$ and sponsors, racing the same ole 15 to 18 guys, and all the while they make a big production out it to make you think its cool, and the most important, entertaining.

I don't see anything changing at all. Why would they? The best thing anyone could do at this point is simply not go, but your car in a barn, and lock the door for a few years. Cut the flow of the $$ and you will get their attention, but that will never happen.

[Burke1118]

Shocks aren’t that expensive, and they don’t go bad. It’s 100$ to freshen one, or 10$ if you know how to change 3 o rings and shock oil. They aren’t the problem.

The biggest costs currently are engines and stupidity.
Engines because we have cars that can ACTUALLY USE 1000hp
And stupidity because people think they need 2 XR1s, 100 integras, the nicest smasher, and every bump stop ever made to be fast. An XR1 is just a gaggle of metal tubes, you can do all the same things with every double adj shock made in the last 10 years just about, and you can use a calculator for your spring crunching.. using your brain can save you loads of money.
My solution for the engine is not to implement engine rules, but make it so that there is no need for any more than about 750hp at any given time, (see modifieds). Take the spoiler completely off, and lower the nose height rule to 12” on the RF and 4” on the LF. Good luck getting the back of the car up without plowing the nose into the ground or completely unsealing the nose. You can build an all aluminum motor that is driveable and has 750hp for peanuts compared to today’s RY45s etc. Then implement a mandatory 4 hard tire rule where you must qualify, heat, and feature on the same 3, with a new Rr allowed in the feature.. No grooving no siping no prepping. Take random lab samples rigorously and make the penalty life time ban.

That fixes your tire problems, most of your aero problems, and your engine problems..How you fix the stupidity part I’m not sure. Someone who really knows what they are doing needs to make a non XR1/LH/black diamond chassis in their garage and go out and stomp everyone to show it can be done. It’s completely possible, would open some eyes and maybe get some people re energized

[hucktyson]

Considering that people are having a hard enough time “ stomping everyone “ with the newest technology you are right that would be impressive.... sounds like you are volunteering , I have a 2016 pierce you can buy to show everyone how that’s done. And wreck a Penske right front and bend the high speed shaft option and show me the 100.00 bill to fix that ...

[Rocky]

If somebody built a car in their garage that stomped all their ass and didn’t start selling them for more than an xr1, I would suspect them to be a commie.

[hucktyson]

The problem is every track and every condition is different. To take an old car and get it to XR1 level racing against national talent would take hundreds of hours of fabricating , thousands of laps of testing that’s if you are as smart as the people who created the new stuff and could drive well enough. Unless you are unemployed and have someone funding this pipe dream it’s going to cost you triple what just buying the XR1 would be anyway 🤣🤣🤣

[hucktyson]

Not to mention you are chasing a moving target that literally gets better every week

[hucktyson]

Madden was never going to lose a crown jewel again ... there’s an insane amount of knowledge, driving skill, testing and experience going on down at planet zero ... and just a few weeks after he was never going to lose again he had absolutely nothing for snort , no one did . That’s because everyone is constantly improving

[Rocky]

I am not speaking for everyone, but if you have a good enough paying job to race late model, chances are you’re at your real job 60 hours a week or so or more. I am. Just keeping on top of the maintenance by yourself can be tough. Out engineering real engineers ain’t for me. That’s why I don’t have any ideas how to level the field. I don’t race I just drive in circles and don’t wreck guys that have good cars.

[slingindirt83]

A complete-competitive shock package is expensive, but not in the whole scheme of all things late model racing. Its not the price of the shocks its that they stick the car to the ground. With the way these cars are stuck from air and shocks, is why you need these huge displacement motors. They dont call them dig sticks for nothing lol. I can remember getting teched at a WOO race 10 years ago and the decks were out of control then, but nothing was said to these guys. Now if a locals sail panel was 1/2" too tall they had to change it though. Just watch when BMJ slid that guy last weekend. He never hit him but that guys whole front end came off the ground from losing the air.

[hjr2]

This thread was a great read. I don't race, just a fan.It seems like there are two types of racers. Those that can't afford to win and those that can't afford to lose.