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Thread: let's chat

  1. #41
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    I am starting to think you guys are talking about the Skoal Bandit --Harry Gant
    If so that guy was awesome as was that era of cup racing

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  2. #42
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    never really thought about it but they might be kin , but robert was a local late model driver that back in the early to mid 2000,s had some success at green valley and other racks in the area , he was like me and loved them ole blue ovals ......old harry was a force to be reckoned with back in the ole skoal bandit days , when nascar actually stood for racing.....

  3. #43
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    so --I was thinking a little off path but maybe still in the same stable/family
    still good discussion

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  4. #44
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    311 speedway allowing 602 clones in there budget 602 late model class, gotta add 50 lbs, 25 of it in front of engine plate!! so far every body running a store bought motor, get a 25 lb brake with gm seals!
    white trash motorsports

  5. #45
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    That's the idea right there .Not everyone has the money to buy a new 602. My frustration comes from the fact no one will even listen to reason about it.They want even consider it. Everything they do to save racer money cost them money.One suggestion was well the motor I have put the money towards a 602 i understand the logic but I'm still money short that I don't have. The difference between my 1500 $ clone and 3800 $ 602 is I can race a season on the difference.Tracks kill me with there bulheaded approach to things they complain car counts are down you present them a partial solution nope can't do that.

  6. #46
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    i have to say i appreciate what our track has done with the street stocks and the new modified class , no more sanctioning body,s , just track rules , you can run a 602 , or build your own engine and pull extra weight , and i am good with this......

  7. #47
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    Glad to see some tracks are open minded about this that's a step in right direction.

  8. #48
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    and on a protest, motor gets dyno'd, if it shows more power than a 602 should it gets tore down, if it dont dyno high it gose back to owner as is!
    white trash motorsports

  9. #49
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    here is my problem with dyno tech

    what is the base line?
    what bolt on components are being used for tech purposes?
    are you only looking at peak TQ and HP ?

    I have been involved with dyno tech in the past and always recommend a stand by (known legal) unit be run just before the engines in question- and be run with all the same components and timing (absolutely the same exact fuel)

    the values of TQ and HP be looked at in several different RPM levels
    the point at which TQ and HP cross is a key number

    IF the engine in question is above base line numbers ---give the owner the opportunity for tear down and inspection by dimension and volume

    not to many tracks or sanctions want to go through all that but how else can you be accurate?

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  10. #50
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    My question is it it's a clone carrying an extra 50# and is duplicate of 602 how can it make more power if it checks right. Again I'm saying first teardown is on me no money taken i would be willing to pay tech guys 75 or 100$ fee he gets to tech a motor then he seals other head oil pan timing cover or something of way to id engine I put it back together for 100$ or so .Next time though it's regular protest fee. Problem is at my track protest fee does not cover reseal fee. Happened twice to a friend of mine to reseal a 602 . He had to pull money out of his pocket to cover rebuilders fee . How the hello is that fair it's not.,I just trying to figure out ways to keep people racing.

  11. #51
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    IMO a built engine has no place being teched by a dyno , its the physical aspects you tech , ie: heads , block , cam , pistons and so on , not numbers on a machine...

  12. #52
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    Excellent point Fast Ford.

  13. #53
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    Brad, I have a new question that I'm interested to learn about pertaining to the 604. Which carb spacer makes the most power on the dyno and which one do you recommend? And where would that power benefit you the most ie. better restarts, more topend on big tracks etc.

  14. #54
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    this might take a couple of posts because I am kinda busy right now but have a minute here at lunch so i will start the explanation

    when you say "power" that term is most commonly associated with HP and even more specific peak HP
    to me peak HP means absolutely nothing but a plain open carburetor spacer will hands down produce your most peak HP

    with that said why do we have so many different configurations?---answer
    torque, acceleration and drivability

    when we cut space down with a simple 4 hole ----we increase acceleration but loose HP
    when we add anti reversion under the spacer---we increase acceleration and TQ and gain some HP back
    when we cut height ---we gan torque but loose HP

    in the 4 link world of dirt racing the attitude of the car is to be tipped onto the RF corner
    this off level situation combined with natural G force creates a much higher jet pressure on the right side and also has a tendency to spill fuel out of the vent tubes

    this can be countered with an angled spacer

    I was just getting going here---gotta go ---hope to return later with more input

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  15. #55
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    little calmer now---

    let me start this reply with there is NO perfect carb spacer for a 604
    carb spacers all do different things and the best thing you can do is get a good balance for your situation.

    for dirt late model applications we do like an angled spacer--most of the time (not all)
    we have been very successful with this particular one
    http://race-1.com/i-23432925-cii-100...acer-4150.html
    it does meet the 1 inch rule that is in most sanctions and is a second version of the original
    the original had too much angle and some other bad charcteristics

    our goal is the best drivability meaning the smoothest power without hesitation
    sometimes and in some areas of the track we may be giving up a digit or 2 of power but raw power is rarely what wins a race

    we have to work with many different rule books and many different series so I can comment on quite a few different spacer combinations if you have one in particular

    1 inch lightweight HVH super sucker is our "go to" spacer when we do not have much information but given specific situations we will change that up

    hope some of that helps---sometimes I confuse more than explain--LOL

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  16. #56
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    Optimum carb size for 602 and 604. Guys around here are going to 650s because they say engine is much more responsive off corners. I know on my claimer type engine it even sounds better with 600 single line Holley than when I bolt on my 750. Both are on e85.I think a 650 would be ideal for it. This was what my Carb builder were talking about. He was the Legendary Smoky Joe Summerville who passed away last week I am still reeling from this. He always took care of me on my carbs and stuff gonna miss him. Give me your thoughts on this.

  17. #57
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    sad to hear this , he was on top of the game in his day , as for the carb thing , right out of the box , i think a 650 will perform better , especially at lower rpm,s , but in the long run and if you can afford them , one of these tricked out , modern 750,s built for a crate engine in particular , will perform circles around it....lmo....

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RW57 View Post
    Optimum carb size for 602 and 604. Guys around here are going to 650s because they say engine is much more responsive off corners. I know on my claimer type engine it even sounds better with 600 single line Holley than when I bolt on my 750. Both are on e85.I think a 650 would be ideal for it. This was what my Carb builder were talking about. He was the Legendary Smoky Joe Summerville who passed away last week I am still reeling from this. He always took care of me on my carbs and stuff gonna miss him. Give me your thoughts on this.
    Most of the Stealths are 700 cfm and the Bakers are 750. That is what most guys around here are running. We had good success with one of the old 750 Stealth carbs that had the extra 1/2" spacer between the body and base plate but we run big half mile tracks. Also ran the 1" HVH spacer but had more success with it upside down. Sounds crazy but 602s already have plenty of low end with the short dual plane intakes. I'd guess it moved the power more toward top end where it was needed. Might have just been the combo with that carb. Tried it on a 604 and it didn't like it.

  19. #59
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    Brad,
    We run a RUSH 604 dirt late model. Mostly interested in comparison between the 1" HVH that everyone runs and the newer 5/8" to see which would be the most beneficial.

  20. #60
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    the difference between the two HVH spacers is a trade off
    the shorter 5/8" has a little more snap on restarts but is lacking just a bit midtrack in comparison to the 1 inch

    we always like acceleration rate the most so we generally go with the 5/8

    you are not gonna see a big difference either way from the seat

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

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