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Thread: let's chat

  1. #201
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    I have seen people around here try a 602 to get the wgt break they all gave up went back to 604 you can't get car light enough to take advantage of weight break.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad hibbard View Post
    I am sure it has some sort of cluster shaft correct?
    I think that is where the power get's gobbled up in conventional transmission vs bert/brinn style
    it does but it can be modified and is very light to begin with , i was actually making a comparison to other factory 3 or 4 speed trans , should have clarified ,but in the end , i dont see no way to get a lighter rotating mass than a bert original style trans , which is lighter than a ball spline....

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    it does but it can be modified and is very light to begin with , i was actually making a comparison to other factory 3 or 4 speed trans , should have clarified ,but in the end , i dont see no way to get a lighter rotating mass than a bert original style trans , which is lighter than a ball spline....
    Ive researched it quite a bit lately, you would be surprised how light some are......theres several that are around 75 lbs before any gears being removed or machine work being done! I just happen to know a guy! lol

  4. #204
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    zero ,i think your talking total weight , or at least i hope so because 75 lbs of rotating weight would make it a slug....

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    zero ,i think your talking total weight , or at least i hope so because 75 lbs of rotating weight would make it a slug....
    Yes, before any gear removal or machining!

  6. #206
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    Oct 2017
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    The original brinn is less than 52# and the 2.0 predator is line 48#. That's alot of weight to lose. 75 lbs plus clutch and flywheel assembly. Im not familiar with the cone stuff but i can't imagine it doesn't way at least 10 plus pounds. So we're at nearly 35 pounds you have to loose just to be even. 602 434# 604 375# as delivered from gm so that's roughly 94lbs in the wrong direction. I still think it's not realistic to think that you will save any weight or gain any advantage on that front. Now will the ability to shift on restarts be able to outweigh this that remains to be seen. Btw all numbers i provided are directly from the manufacturers

  7. #207
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    Its definitely gonna be a balancing act. Hopefully, the concepts of momentum and pmi effects will all work in my favor.

    Theres some transmission re-builders that rebuild stock type transmissions for circle track that are very light and frictionless coated but they are very pricey. I haven't ruled that out yet, but Im trying to find an affordable option.

    Im not in a real hurry as we always disassemble our newly purchased cars completely and fix any issues we find before putting them back together. Im always amazed at how some guys think their body fabricators! smh,lol

  8. #208
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    on this tranny subject---I just had a guy tell me that the 2nd gen bert has a chain inside
    I have a hard time wrapping my head around any trans with a chain inside being less friction but there is no doubt that the 2nd gen bert free's up some power to the rear wheels
    can someone expand on the internals of the newest BERT tranny to help me understand

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  9. #209
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  10. #210
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    a bit heavier than a burt/brinn over all, but lightest stock trans reciprocating weight trans i know of!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEAaHjNuFV4&t=4s
    white trash motorsports

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad hibbard View Post
    on this tranny subject---I just had a guy tell me that the 2nd gen bert has a chain inside
    I have a hard time wrapping my head around any trans with a chain inside being less friction but there is no doubt that the 2nd gen bert free's up some power to the rear wheels
    can someone expand on the internals of the newest BERT tranny to help me understand

    Brad
    www.race-1.com
    Brad, the first gen bert had a more std type trans cluster shaft but the shaft was 2 pieces with the clutch made into it. When the clutch was locked the whole cluster shaft turned similar to a regular trans. The 2nd gen trans doesn't really have a cluster shaft persay (its there but really small just for reverse if IIRC) the chain drives that small cluster shaft only when in reverse. Instead of a clutch pack, it uses a band for low gear instead of the cluster shaft with a clutch pack.

    Hope that makes sense.

  12. #212
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    I believe that is the way the Brinn Predator is also. When in high gear, it only turns the input and output shaft and not the entire gear cluster like the original Brinn trans does hence free horsepower.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirty white boy View Post
    a bit heavier than a burt/brinn over all, but lightest stock trans reciprocating weight trans i know of!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEAaHjNuFV4&t=4s
    Thanks, that's the one ive been looking for. Someone awhile back, had posted that video!

  14. #214
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    its been posted in the street stock threads before a few times...other than over all weight and with a good light weight 5 or 7 inch clutch set up could work on a budget in right class, crates probably ant right class! maybe a limited late model tho'!
    white trash motorsports

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    Brad, the first gen bert had a more std type trans cluster shaft but the shaft was 2 pieces with the clutch made into it. When the clutch was locked the whole cluster shaft turned similar to a regular trans. The 2nd gen trans doesn't really have a cluster shaft persay (its there but really small just for reverse if IIRC) the chain drives that small cluster shaft only when in reverse. Instead of a clutch pack, it uses a band for low gear instead of the cluster shaft with a clutch pack.

    Hope that makes sense.
    thank you----makes perfect sense

  16. #216
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    Brad, whats the difference between 602 and 604 carburetors? We got a great deal on a new Stealth that came with our car. It came off a 604 but were gonna be using a 602.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Brad, whats the difference between 602 and 604 carburetors? We got a great deal on a new Stealth that came with our car. It came off a 604 but were gonna be using a 602.
    If you are using the same fuel as what the carb was calibrated for--there won't be any issues with running it on your 602
    to answer your question more directly about the difference in builds------
    it might be easier to start by explaining our focus with carburetors between the two engines.
    the 602 with it's dual plane intake and relatively small intake valve has quite a bit of initial power so we tend to soften the early side of the carb.
    The 604 needs all the help it can get at RPM's below 3500 so we typically focus hard on slow speed booster signal when used on a 604.
    the above is general description ---we do our best to customize the build to each engine combined with the situation such as car type and type of racing.
    That is why you cannot buy a carb directly from our website----we will always have a conversation about your situation before building the carburetor.
    Think of this:
    a pavement Late model
    a big tire street stock on dirt @ 3200#'s
    a 8" tire street sock on dirt @ 2800#'s
    a dirt late model with 4 link and open tire
    a dirt modified
    a pavement modified
    etc---etc--etc
    all of the above and dozens more run 602 and 604 engines ---there is no way possible to have a carb that works best in all types of racing
    fuel curve is relative to fuel type, altitude and weather not to the build/design of the carburetor

    hope that helps
    everyone stay healthy
    God be with us all
    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  18. #218
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    We made the decision to close the shop to the public and all workers except me are working from home or just taking time off
    I will continue to answer the phone and emails while getting a few things done in the shop, but (for now) we are not permitting anyone to drop off or pick up engines.

    This virus has to be taken seriously by all of us to be defeated.
    I don't know what to actually say except this is real and at first I was guilty of blowing off the seriousness of it but now I realize and hope you do as well that we have to be as cautious as humanly possible for awhile.

    i am actually getting used to the smell of lysol---LOL

    here is a tech tip:
    I have not done the research to confirm this but it comes to me from a very reliable source
    hydrogen peroxide ---kills the virus on surfaces including our hands (instantly I'm told)
    peroxide is cheap and readily available and does not feel sticky or nasty to the touch and it really has no smell.
    I intend on doing a little homework on it but I thought some of my 4M family might have some info as well

    stay healthy
    Brad

  19. #219
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    Jul 2014
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    If you think the parts cleaner tank dries your skin, wait til you use H2O2, all that dry skin will be gone, hopefully there is enough wet stuff underneath! Save it for surfaces! Lysol smells like a prison.....Which your sorta in! So many not taking this serious is why we are where we are.... Corona Virus leader in the world, not the lead we need or want to be in. Stay healthy, the racing world needs us 'old' guys!
    Last edited by CCHIEF; 04-03-2020 at 11:43 AM.

  20. #220
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    you threw me a bit with the chemical code (H2O2) ---LOL but it was an easy find
    anyway I did a little research on my own and found that Peroxide (H2O2) is effective on the virus but the recommendation is to leave it sit on the surface being treated for 5 minutes before wiping
    with that bit of information I retract my previous comment of "instantly"

    Chief--I might be a little more resistant to dry skin (because of all the parts cleaner time) but it really doesn't seem to dry my skin out to a point of concern

    maybe lets consider another use other than skin
    I deal with boxes on a daily basis ---and God only knows where they have been
    Reports are that the virus lives for at least 24 hours on cardboard
    My procedure for this past week has been to spray down the boxes with H2O2 and leave them sit outside for 24 hours under our porch roof

    I feel bad for delivery drivers ---IMO they are as much at risk as health workers

    try to understand their position when they deliver to you

    Brad

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