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Thread: let's chat

  1. #221
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    Oct 2007
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    Happy Easter to my 4M family
    it's a sad time in the world but the celebration of Easter is AWESOME!!!

    Brad

  2. #222
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    Oct 2007
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    hope everyone is well ----looks like we can see some light towards slowing the virus and getting back to a more normal life-----I hope they don't rush the openings and and spin us out -----we need to move slow and easy---just like slick track driving----"slow down to go fast"---most of you know what I mean

    stay safe---stay healthy
    Brad

  3. #223
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    Oct 2007
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    any feed back on 2 barrel carb adapters for crate engine
    more related to 602 but for discussion if you have 604 information ---let's hear it also

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  4. #224

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    Hey Brad, curious if you've had any experiences with the flat air cleaner bases that I'm seeing around. Any benefits or drawbacks to them? We run claim IMCA Sportmod engines on a Holley 4412. But interest in looking into them if they are worth what they are worth.

    https://crateinsider.com/crate-insid...r-filter-base/

  5. #225
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    Oct 2007
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    our flat base version is similar to what you are speaking of
    http://race-1.com/i-23432932-cii-300...tegory:1179973
    we have been testing with it and using it for quite awhile---there are some down sides to it and walker engineering has addressed the negatives to the crate innovations flat base with positive gains
    The Walker system is "nearly" the same power numbers but takes the dips out of the acceleration rate that we see when the flat base is introduced to moving air.

    We have recently performed some high speed air testing on the dyno with both the Walker System and the Crate Innovations flat base----we are currently organizing the information from the test sessions and will have it available soon.

    To answer your question more directly
    YES---we use it and hands down it has made the most power and TQ than anything out there when comparing static dyno numbers

    stay safe and stay healthy
    have a great day!
    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  6. #226

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    hey Brad,my last two 604 i have had problems blowing out intake gaskets,have you seen a rash in this lately?

  7. #227
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    Oct 2007
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    Brett,
    I am about as fussy as it comes with intake manifolds so let's discuss your actual problem----

    are we talking new engines or rebuilt?
    are we talking oil leaking from the ends or air into the runners?
    coolant leaks are not common but I will ask--??

    if its oil I have a permanent fix for it without removal of the intake
    if it is an air leak it is probably a self inflicted problem from misuse of a lift plate
    here is a link to my sermon on lift plates
    http://race-1.com/p-26190-can-i-use-a-lift-plate.html

    let me know what the actual problem is that your having and we can go from there
    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  8. #228

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    new motor,the gasket pushes out at the head right at the runner,usually the front runner.so air into the runner,then the rpms go way up and oils that plug...and we don't use lift plates any more

  9. #229
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    Oct 2007
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    Brett,
    It sounds like you were victim of poorly installed intake manifolds and that is very a common problem.
    here is a link to our checklist for new engines ---notice that one of the first things we check is the intake
    http://race-1.com/p-26179-what-shoul...y-new-604.html

    We have never experienced the condition that you are describing but we reject all engines with improperly installed intake manifolds.

    It appears that someone has led you to believe that a lift plate was causing this failure.
    If your failure is due to an improperly installed intake --a lift plate had nothing to do with it.

    sorry we did not get this information to you sooner as to avoid your expense to repair

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  10. #230
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    Oct 2007
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    we did testing on the Walker air cleaner system last week and once we have compiled the information where it is easy to understand it will be posted on our website, on our FB and I will put a link here as well
    honestly ---during the testing procedure I wasn't overly impressed-- but after discussion with associates I see the benefits
    our testing was not static air as with normal dyno testing but with high speed air flow directed at the air cleaner as if it is on a big track seeing 100 MPH+ air speeds

    stay tuned
    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  11. #231
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    Sorry for the length but it was easiest to copy and paste the report

    OK, here it is ---results and comments of our high speed air flow testing using the Crate Innovations flat base with standard top and the newly developed Walker System

    A little intro into our report----
    Several years ago when we tested the flat base system on our engine dyno along with every possibility and combination of base and top we could think of----Result: there was nothing that was comparable in power to the flat base.
    Different tops made little to no change in power ---it was the base itself that was key.
    As with anything there are always negatives to the situation.
    The Flat base that produced exciting power, raised the air cleaner system so high that it was very difficult for the driver to see over.
    That was the obvious negative but in todays aerodynamics the air cleaner being raised above the hood an extreme amount created downforce issues ----and in this era all racers can understand and relate to downforce.
    In addition to the two negatives mentioned above the event of dynamic (moving) air would be harder to deflect and control with the air cleaner assembly so high in the air.
    With all that said the flat base makes exciting power numbers and in the crate world 2 digits is an eye opener but this product was 4 plus compared to anything so we ran with it despite the negatives involved.

    So here it is—
    The flat base system (no matter what the top) will beat any drop base system by a minimum of 4 HP –(5 to 6 is more common)
    Except---the Walker System
    Walker has developed a “drop base” system that not only brings the air cleaner assembly down out of the air a significant amount but also maintains the power gains that we see with the drop base.

    This alone is a Win in the advancement of technology but lets look deeper.

    At static air pressure with all things equal the flat base numbers are 1 digit better throughout the RPM range over the Walker--nothing previous was within 4 digits.

    That was with STATIC air (typical dyno room) (slow air speed)
    Real world operation the air filter can possibly see air speeds of 100 MPH plus

    Flat Base dynamic air:
    We set up an air mover that produced air speed in the 80 to 90 MPH range and directed this air at the air cleaner.
    Our testing always begins at 2500 RPM and we were not able to run the air speed on the flat base until 4500 RPM
    Below 4500 the engine was so choppy that we were afraid of damage to the engine or our dyno.
    Flat base air speed tests were started at 4500 (which in all fairness you should never see high air speed at 2500 anyway)
    Test continued to 6800 RPM and the results were not dramatic from a numbers aspect although they were lower than static numbers however, what did stand out was acceleration rate was diminished and with close examination of the graph results there are small dips in the torque curve leading to the slower acceleration

    Walker System dynamic air:
    The same air mover was set up in the same position.
    The Walker test was able to start at our normal 2500 starting point without any disruption.
    Power numbers remained stable through out the pull and were slightly higher than static numbers.
    Graph results were flat without dips and acceleration rate was comparable to static.

    The Take Away here is:
    Both systems show better power than anything ever tested by us.
    The Walker system addresses the adverse situations that can impede the benefits of the flat base.

    A note about testing at our facility:
    We use controlled air temperatures and a computer-controlled weather station to make all final adjustments.
    We also perform all tests in a format of A-B-A-B
    This test session was performed on a 604 engine that had already seen a break-in procedure performed on an earlier date with all numbers being stable.
    This test session had 48 dyno pulls and was done within a continuous 4 hour period

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  12. #232

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    Any chance that any gains on the walker system were from the tiny bit of forced air into the air cleaner by the speed of the air. Maybe the flat base is letting the air at speed just shear across the top of the carb and actually pull a small vacuum until the engine gains enough RPM to overcome it. I am only theorizing.

  13. #233
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    Oct 2007
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    Mopar, although there is no intention of forced induction with either system----I can follow your thought process and with adding the adjective "tiny" to your thoughts I will concur.
    More of the benefit is developed from your next thought of the air "shearing" across the top of the carb and creating a vacuum above the carburetors venturi which is working against the engine vacuum that is attempting to pull a calculated air/fuel mixture through the venturi and booster combination.

    In a simpler explanation----air moving straight across the top of a carburetor creates confusion for the carburetor functions----

    both systems have impressive power gains
    If you can control the dynamic air to the filter---driver vision is not a concern and down force is not an issue then use the flat base it is economical and fits all existing filter elements
    The Walker system addresses the mentioned adverse conditions but it is substantially more money and does have a unique filter element.

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  14. #234

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    What would be a good starting point on the floats with one of the angled carb spacers. If the old way was setting fuel at the bottom or middle or whatever reference point in the sight glass on either side with carb flat where do you set them now with it angled?

  15. #235
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    Oct 2007
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    you should always level the carb to check and set float levels ----this is done by jacking different corners of the car

    if you have windows on both sides of the carb bowl, you do not have to be perfectly level---
    figure the difference---(if left is a little high and right is a little low---your good)
    but you still want to be in the ball park of carb level before checking

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  16. #236

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    Do you set them at idle pressure (3-3.5) or clamp the line till it comes up to race pressure (6.5-7) then set them?

  17. #237
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    Fabulous question Mopar---
    most people do not realize that fuel pressure affects float level

    with the exception of a methanol carburetor-----we recommend that the floats be set at race pressure

    now I have to ask----what fuel are you running?
    because with all gasoline fuels we recommend a steady constant pressure from idle to full throttle
    with some belt driven pumps we will run a small bleed that will pull a pound or so away at idle but the actual intention is to keep the pump from spiking pressure on corner entry.

    brad
    www.race-1.com

  18. #238

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    On gasoline with a waterman pump with a regulator in the return line stacked on the drysump pump

  19. #239
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    Oct 2007
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    Let's chat about timing lights--
    one of my pet peeves is timing that was incorrect because of a snazzy timing light.
    I have several shelves of engines with the pistons knocked out of them because of timing and almost all of these were timed with an advance type timing light--
    50% of the time it is because the user does not know how to actually use the light but I have seen many of these lights be 3 to 5 degrees off even when they are used properly
    here is a video that I did with my thoughts on timing lights.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWk7kCw6XKU

    Brad
    www.race-1.com

  20. #240
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    Feb 2015
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    100% agree with you on that, Brad. We tossed or sold all of our advance type lights quite a while back for the same reasons you state. The old fashioned ones are much more accurate and reliable. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of those unaware of their problems.

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