let's chat

[doyle hargraves]

Been running wix paper air filters on my sons crate motor and thought they were doing a decent job. Took motor in for freshen and engine builder says it has been breathing some dirt. Says it has some abnormal cylinder wall and ring wear and he needs to hone it and install what he calls high limit pistons. Not sure if the problem is wix or just paper filters in general? He suggests walker Guess I’m gonna try them.

[doyle hargraves]

Forgot to mention we always grease the filter to base area and use a sure seal on the carb to base so don’t think the problem is there

[doyle hargraves]

Just thinking about this fuel bowl thing. I wonder if anyone has ever tried a fuel bowl setup with the n/s on the bottom??

[brad hibbard]

I caution you on your engine builder's piston selection.
there are no crate sanctioning organizations that I am aware of that permit a high limit piston

the Walker filters will do a great job for you

Brad
www.race-1.com

[billetbirdcage]

Just thinking about this fuel bowl thing. I wonder if anyone has ever tried a fuel bowl setup with the n/s on the bottom??

Braswell did one as an experiment, not sure it ever went far enough to become a product or why it was abandoned

[billetbirdcage]

Generally as long as it was a good paper filter (with the wix you are good) it's the base that's tweaked and not sealing like it should.

[fastford]

i never could bring myself to trust a paper filter , still swear by the ole k&n that you wash and spray , i did learn that you can spray them with type f trans fluid and clean them with white wall tire cleaner and it worked just as well as the expensive k&n kit....

[Jking24]

Not in reference to crates but latemodels in general and specifically steel blocks. Methanol vs gas vs e85 pros cons, tune sensitivity?etc....

[brad hibbard]

this should take a page or two of opinions--

the gas family of fuels has to be broken up into at least 2 categories---oxygenated and non oxygenated and in the 9 to 1 world we have to also talk about pump gas which is actually an oxygenated fuel but we do not treat it like an oxygenated fuel because it won't tune like an oxygenated fuel
for now let's leave pump gas out of the conversation

my responses will be general for now and based primarily on the 9 to 1 crate engine

for torque we will always choose methanol
the exception would be in unusually cold conditions
the down side is the maintenance involved
most chassis guys will not want you to use it because of rapid change in percentages

E85---awesome fuel
BUT --it's not a lazy mans fuel ----constant content checking and adjusting is required
E85 runs best in high heat and humidity ---
a specific "purpose built" carb is needed -----there is much more to it than jets

Non oxygenated gas
very friendly fuel for our engine and fuel system
detonation is rarely a problem
corrosion is not a problem
stores easily without special containers
lacks in power and acceleration

oxygenated gas
makes great power in cooler temperatures
easy to tune----accelerates well in most conditions
very corrosive for valve guides--piston rings--carburetors and regulators
storage can be an issue---short shelf life
stinks and costs alot of money

that should be enough to get the ball rolling

Brad
www.race-1.com

[Jking24]

In reference to e85 you say constant checking and adjusting. I am aware that you need to check it for correct content care to elaborate on the adjusting part. Jetting or actual fuel mix

[billetbirdcage]

Some places require the E85 to be between 84 and 86, hell the humidity change can make it vary that much. It's just a pain in the arse to keep it between that by the time the race is over and they check it. Now granted they have relaxed the number a little to make it easier but still a pain, much better if they go off the Specific gravity

[brad hibbard]

pump grades of E85 are inconsistent with blend percentages-- there is some reason for it when talking about street vehicles but when it comes to race engines it is a bit of a pain in the behind

winter blends will be low content (E70ish)
while summer blends can be high content (E90ish)

bringing summer blends down to 85 is easy but you must use patience
bringing winter blends up to 85 is much more difficult and requires some research into a location that will sell E98
the public cannot buy E100 as that is actually moonshine

then we have the evaporation rate difference and the separation of the two different fuels in storage

race grades of E85 make this much simpler ---however does not completely eliminate possibilities of incorrect mixtures----still need to check your fuel

Brad
www.race-1.com

[Jking24]

Can you just add gas to bring it down or is it more complicated than that.i have long been under the impression that gas and alcohol will not mix without a catalyst but have no first hand experience other than dumping a gallon or two of methanol into old vehicles to get them through emissions lol

[brad hibbard]

yes you add gas to bring it down
and you are correct that they are not completely happy staying mixed together
we keep them blended with an air hose and this will last for several days or even a week
the fuel that is in the cell stays mixed by motion but when pulling from a drum we always agitate it with an air line

I just want to point out that Ethanol used in E85 and Methanol are both alcohols but COMPLETELY different and do not mix-----using methanol to increase your E85 content does not work

Brad
www.race-1.com

[Jking24]

Thanks Brad. What kind of performance differences do you see from e85 vs regular unleaded racing gas say a sonoco 112 or similar

[RW57]

I use pump e85 for the most part it's always coming but check it at pump. The one time I didn't have checker guess what apparently the delivery guy put gas in e85 tank normally I will smell it also but this day in a hurry i didnt.Got to shop checked it noticing it had a gas smell it was about e65. Went to liquor store bought several cheap cheap bottles of corn liquor poured it in it bumped it a little bit not enough too late to put it back on gas as it's time to load. Go back to store tell them what I found they refund my money offer to pay for any damage their is none though as I caught it that's the only time it's been bad.Brad several yrs ago we were talking about e85 and I seen to recall you said you had dynoed pump e85 vs renegade e85 and there was no difference hp wise but as you just stated its always consistent and is leaded.I love the e85 thought but I have gotten lazy and created problems for myself. Biggest thing they need to take too to heart is the winterizing steps i didn't one year and paid the price.

[fastford]

its a little slow to catch on , but in my opinion , E85 is one of the best things fuel related , to come along to help wit cost in a long time , it will out perform 10$ a gallon racing fuel and on average only uses about 20% more , this has been argued on hear from the beginning , but from my experience , in the big picture , it can not be beat......JMO.....

[RW57]

Agree 100% percent Fast Ford on that i love the stuff Smoky Joe was a big believer in the stuff he's the one that convinced me to go to it well him and Marvin Ford.I use pump e85 which means I can go race for about for about 25 to 30 bucks a nite where 10$ a gallon race gas would cost me a 100$ big savings there.

[fastford]

exactly rw57 , that article smoky joe did for some magazine way back when , is what began my interest in e85 , probably one of the most beneficial reads i ever read , i kept the mag but probably will never find it in my 4 foot stack , i think it was circle track but not sure.....

[brad hibbard]

E85 is certainly an awesome fuel for crates and I would think the same for any lower compression engine

we have found that high contents of ethanol tend to slow the acceleration rate and that is why we push the testing and adjusting of the fuel

to answer Jking specifically----a 112 race fuel is too slow of a burn for a crate
with that type of fuel we have to run more timing than usual to get a reasonable take off on restarts and then upper end power suffers----the tune is more or less a bandaid to make the fuel work

Brad
www.race-1.com