Playoffs Should Never Be a Part of Dirt Late Model Racing

[Returning to Dirt]

https://insidedirtracing.com/playoff...-model-racing/

What might work for NASCAR wouldn't work on dirt

[JimBo]

Playoffs are for stick and ball sports.

[Shiny Side Up 18]

What might work for NASCAR wouldn't work on dirt

It doesn't even work for NASCAR.

You shouldn't get to "win" a championship if you miss 11 races while everyone else runs all 36.

[15b24fan]

I feel my opinion is not a popular one, but I'll just simply state that I enjoy the playoffs of Nascar. I do wish they would expand the final round to a best of three though. With that said, I don't think it would work in the dirt world. There are not enough touring cars in a series to do a fair playoff. Instead, I think WoO and Lucas should do a mini series to determine the best late model driver. Maybe a crown jewel championship of sorts.

[Zonks32x]

DLM racing definitely does NOT need a playoff system.

That said, both major traveling series could and should re-evaluate their current points structure.

You want to create more interest, adjust the points system so a bad night doesn't kill a driver for weeks and a win isn't worth so many points that everyone from 4th on back falls drastically behind every night.

First change I would put in place for Lucas & WoO. Only award points to the drivers who have committed to running the series.

The local guy and regional guys who run a limited amount of WoO or Lucas events each year don't care about points...they're racing a touring event with the hope of earning more $$.

WoO or Lucas points don't mean anything to drivers like Babb, Pierce, Mars, Heckenast, Marlar, etc.

If 17th in points at the end of the year paid something, then fine, but it doesn't, so just award points to the drivers who pull through the pit gate every night.

[ImCryn2]

DLM racing definitely does NOT need a playoff system.

That said, both major traveling series could and should re-evaluate their current points structure.

You want to create more interest, adjust the points system so a bad night doesn't kill a driver for weeks and a win isn't worth so many points that everyone from 4th on back falls drastically behind every night.

First change I would put in place for Lucas & WoO. Only award points to the drivers who have committed to running the series.

The local guy and regional guys who run a limited amount of WoO or Lucas events each year don't care about points...they're racing a touring event with the hope of earning more $$.

WoO or Lucas points don't mean anything to drivers like Babb, Pierce, Mars, Heckenast, Marlar, etc.

If 17th in points at the end of the year paid something, then fine, but it doesn't, so just award points to the drivers who pull through the pit gate every night.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion a bad night should put you behind in points. Next week the tables may be turned and you can close the gap back up if you are a legitimate contender. I also think the winner should be awarded enough points to get a little ahead since WINNING is the point of the race. If the racing is truly competitive in the series then the points will reflect it.

I'm not understanding why you would want only series regulars to get points. Are you thinking that if Sheppard wins and Babb, Pierce, Marlar are 2nd, 3rd & 4th, that the 5th place guy should get 2nd place points? You're right, Babb, Pierce and Marlar don't care about the points, but in this case Sheppard beat drivers while the 5th place guy didn't. Lets say Babb, Pierce and Marlar are up front and Sheppard is 4th, followed by another series regular. What incentive would Brandon have to even try to pass those guys if he is only going to get points for finishing one position ahead of the next series regular?
The way I'm reading this it seems you want to award the guys who are not winning and/or have problems more often with a better chance to stay up in points. I'm not a fan of manufactured excitement. If a guy wins 18 series races and only finishes outside the top 5 a handful of times, he has earned his insurmountable point lead. JMO
I have lost a points battle where out of town drivers showed up at the end of the year (when they were looking for somewhere to run) and they finished between myself and the guy I was battling with. I've lost a points battle over a ignition switch going bad the final night. That being said, I've won a couple under similar circumstances.

[Jking24]

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion a bad night should put you behind in points. Next week the tables may be turned and you can close the gap back up if you are a legitimate contender. I also think the winner should be awarded enough points to get a little ahead since WINNING is the point of the race. If the racing is truly competitive in the series then the points will reflect it.I'm not understanding why you would want only series regulars to get points. Are you thinking that if Sheppard wins and Babb, Pierce, Marlar are 2nd, 3rd & 4th, that the 5th place guy should get 2nd place points? You're right, Babb, Pierce and Marlar don't care about the points, but in this case Sheppard beat drivers while the 5th place guy didn't. Lets say Babb, Pierce and Marlar are up front and Sheppard is 4th, followed by another series regular. What incentive would Brandon have to even try to pass those guys if he is only going to get points for finishing one position ahead of the next series regular? The way I'm reading this it seems you want to award the guys who are not winning and/or have problems more often with a better chance to stay up in points. I'm not a fan of manufactured excitement. If a guy wins 18 series races and only finishes outside the top 5 a handful of times, he has earned his insurmountable point lead. JMO I have lost a points battle where out of town drivers showed up at the end of the year (when they were looking for somewhere to run) and they finished between myself and the guy I was battling with. I've lost a points battle over a ignition switch going bad the final night. That being said, I've won a couple under similar circumstances.

I do agree with you and while i have not actually examined both points structures very closely. It seems to me that that lucas system is a little more forgiving in the fact that one or two bad nights doesn't seem to completely knock a guy out of contention. Where on the woo it does i mean on paper Sheppard had a far better year than marlar or madden last year but two dnfs pretty much knocked him completely out without the other two having misfortune. Again this is just how they strike me at face value i have not looked at either closely

[Dlmfan123]

I do agree with you and while i have not actually examined both points structures very closely. It seems to me that that lucas system is a little more forgiving in the fact that one or two bad nights doesn't seem to completely knock a guy out of contention. Where on the woo it does i mean on paper Sheppard had a far better year than marlar or madden last year but two dnfs pretty much knocked him completely out without the other two having misfortune. Again this is just how they strike me at face value i have not looked at either closely

You get 4 more points for winning woo then 2nd. Then it drops by 2 for every position threw the field

[formercrewguy]

It ain't broke....leave it alone.

[Rocky]

Why I think it would be a great idea if Bshep was robbed of the title by getting a flat tire at Charlotte after leaving the whole dirt late model world in a smoking pile of wreckage this season. (Sarcasm)

Out of all the dumb things NASCAR does, how they decide a champion is the dumbest. I mean how 💩 faced was the drunk when he thought of that? They need to go back to doing it right then put an asterisk in the record book for every single champion decided after that Chase started.

[JimBo]

Why I think it would be a great idea if Bshep was robbed of the title by getting a flat tire at Charlotte after leaving the whole dirt late model world in a smoking pile of wreckage this season. (Sarcasm)

Out of all the dumb things NASCAR does, how they decide a champion is the dumbest. I mean how  faced was the drunk when he thought of that? They need to go back to doing it right then put an asterisk in the record book for every single champion decided after that Chase started.

Right on Rocky I agree 100% about the dumba$$ NASCAR playoff format.

Regarding Lucas or WOO, what about dropping your two worst points night? I also think locals should not accumulate series points but not sure how you would make this work.

[brsteg]

Only time a playoff would be acceptable is if there were a North and a South tour and at the end of the year they ran 5 co-sanction events where top 5 in both tours race for a 10 man point system (after their North and South tour season points end.)
Think the old Hooters Pro Cup. 100% acceptable.

[intel8]

They lost lost me with the "car of tomorrow" B.S., then they throw the stage and playoff crap into play, then throw in, " the seasons too long, the races are too long, the walls are too hard, very dangerous", good lord! Hope dirt racing doesn't follow, but they are squeezing the weekend warrior out of play. Jmo.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Why I think it would be a great idea if Bshep was robbed of the title by getting a flat tire at Charlotte after leaving the whole dirt late model world in a smoking pile of wreckage this season. (Sarcasm)

Out of all the dumb things NASCAR does, how they decide a champion is the dumbest. I mean how  faced was the drunk when he thought of that? They need to go back to doing it right then put an asterisk in the record book for every single champion decided after that Chase started.

I think Brian likes or liked pills too.

Yeah they have completely turned me off of NASCRAP. Which is a shame. I was pretty loyal about 10 years ago or more.

[Rocky]

I started watching NASCAR again after I started trying to race a late model and realizing that the guys that run them are paying attention to Cup.

Anyways the only way I could get behind a “Playoff” in dirt racing is if that somehow there was a super series that went from the World to Charlotte. Kinda like the USMTS “hunt”. Champions of every series and track are invited and running for points. Everybody else can come, but you’re only running for money. Like a super hell tour on meth and steroids.

[Zonks32x]

Imcryn2,

Allow me to elaborate. Agree 100% with you that winning should reward the most points and provide an advantage over everyone else. (For that single race).
B-Shepp lost out on the '18 WoO title b/c of 2 dnf's. Bad nights happen in DLM racing, nature of the beast, but a points structure that is too punitive, doesn't make the championship chase better.

What I would do, if I was in charge of points.

Points for full-time touring drivers only.
1 pt to the fast qualifier for the night.
1 pt for a heat race win.
1 pt for leading the most laps in the feature.
1 pt for hard-charger in the feature.

50 pts for winning the main event.
*If the highest finishing touring driver finished in 2nd (49 pts), 3rd (48 pts), 4th (47pts), 5th (46pts), 6th or lower (45 pts)

2nd through 7th highest finishing touring driver
2 less points if they finish directly behind touring driver ahead of them.
3 less points otherwise

8th through 10th place touring drivers
All receive 3 less points than the 7th place touring driver.

11th through 14th (or however many full-timers a series has)
All receive 3 pts less than 10th highest touring driver.

For arguments sake, let's say a series has 12 full time touring drivers and they finish in order 1-12 in the feature:
1st:50 pts, 2nd:48, 3rd:46, 4th:44, 5th: 42, 6th: 40, 7th: 38, 8th: 35, 9th:35, 10th:35, 11th:32, 12th:32

Now let's say, highest touring driver finished 3rd, and there was a gap of 1 car or more between all the touring drivers in the feature:
1st: 48pts, 2nd: 45, 3rd: 42, 4th: 39, 5th: 36, 6th: 33, 7th: 30, 8th: 27, 9th: 27, 10th: 27, 11th: 24, 12th: 24

Bottom line for me is this: If the nightly payout has little to no difference from 8th place on back, the points structure should do the same.

[rdcllk]

Anybody remember the race at Ky. Lake. EPJ and O'Neal going for the title in the last race of the season

[ImCryn2]

Imcryn2,

Allow me to elaborate. Agree 100% with you that winning should reward the most points and provide an advantage over everyone else. (For that single race).
B-Shepp lost out on the '18 WoO title b/c of 2 dnf's. Bad nights happen in DLM racing, nature of the beast, but a points structure that is too punitive, doesn't make the championship chase better.

What I would do, if I was in charge of points.

Points for full-time touring drivers only.
1 pt to the fast qualifier for the night.
1 pt for a heat race win.
1 pt for leading the most laps in the feature.
1 pt for hard-charger in the feature.

50 pts for winning the main event.
*If the highest finishing touring driver finished in 2nd (49 pts), 3rd (48 pts), 4th (47pts), 5th (46pts), 6th or lower (45 pts)

2nd through 7th highest finishing touring driver
2 less points if they finish directly behind touring driver ahead of them.
3 less points otherwise

8th through 10th place touring drivers
All receive 3 less points than the 7th place touring driver.

11th through 14th (or however many full-timers a series has)
All receive 3 pts less than 10th highest touring driver.

For arguments sake, let's say a series has 12 full time touring drivers and they finish in order 1-12 in the feature:
1st:50 pts, 2nd:48, 3rd:46, 4th:44, 5th: 42, 6th: 40, 7th: 38, 8th: 35, 9th:35, 10th:35, 11th:32, 12th:32

Now let's say, highest touring driver finished 3rd, and there was a gap of 1 car or more between all the touring drivers in the feature:
1st: 48pts, 2nd: 45, 3rd: 42, 4th: 39, 5th: 36, 6th: 33, 7th: 30, 8th: 27, 9th: 27, 10th: 27, 11th: 24, 12th: 24

Bottom line for me is this: If the nightly payout has little to no difference from 8th place on back, the points structure should do the same.

Thanks for the explanation. While it may be a little confusing for the casual fan, I'm sure the series could have a computer program to do the math almost immediately.

Out of curiosity, under that system, would it have changed the outcome of either series recently?

[Rocky]

If you do it that way you can’t pick up drivers to replace guys that announce then by the end of Speedweeks know that they can’t compete and quit. It happens every year.

Who was that dude about 12 years ago his car was as bad as mine but he kept showing up getting provisional starts... He probably had the time of his life, but there is that happening too guys.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

#93

Roy Mitchell outta Indiana. He was awful. Dangerously slow. I’ll be attacked for that statement, but that’s ok. At least one wreck I watched him cause because of how slow and in the way he was.