mile dirt tracks

[brsteg]

????? Is the roll cage safer in ARCA than in dirt late models ? How fast could an ARCA car turn a lap at a mile dirt track as compared to today's dirt late model ? How does the horse power of ARCA engines compared to dirt late model engines ? How does the gearing of ARCA cars compare to the gearing of dirt late models ?
I like racing but I don't know the fine points of these cars.
Thank you,
Jim Hanson P.S. I'm assuming dirt late models have a better tire for dirt than ARCA ?????

An ARCA car is practically an M1 Abrams main battle tank compared to a dirt late model. It has a steel body DLM has a body made of flimsy aluminum. An ARCA chassis is perimeter, which means that it goes way over to the passenger door. A DLM chassis is offset, the cage stops around a foot and a half to the right of the driver. An ARCA car weighs 3500 lbs a DLM weighs 2300 lbs. An ARCA car I believe has 550 horsepower a DLM has depending on who you ask 800 to 900 horsepower. How much faster? They’re 9 seconds faster than the NASCAR trucks at Eldora. The answer? I don’t know, but way, way faster.

I think an ARCA is closer to 700 than 550. (Yelp more than a Cup car, close or more than Xfinity cars.) So they are anywhere from 100-200 horses down on power; but they lack the suspension of late models and they aren't getting near what they have hooked up on dirt. (A DLM may not get all 900 hooked to the ground, but they are getting a lot of it to the ground today with suspension and aero.)
Late Models has a lot wider tire than ARCA also, so helps getting power to the ground. ARCA uses the General Tire badging which is the parent company of Hoosier, so they probably work reasonably well for what they are.

[chathamracefan]

Late models were down in the 28 or so second bracket the last few years at Springfield (maybe even in the high 27's in qualifying). ARCA cars are in the 33 or so second bracket in qual for the fastest cars (depending on track conditions). Lates were at least 5 seconds faster.

One year John Prior hit the wall going into turn 1 in his late model. Rear spun around to the inside & he slid into outside wall hard flush on the drivers side. He was OK but the car was completely trashed. The speeds were on the edge of unsafe & that was 15 or 20 years ago.

[jhanson]

Thank you---very helpful

[jhanson]

thanks to all--even more info is appreciated if you think of it---I have a naturally curious mind

[gumby_32d]

Darren Miller has the track record at Springfield at 27.645.. correct me if I'm wrong.. growing up, this my favorite race. It's where we got to see all the big names. Started going in the early 90's until the last won that held there that Darren won.

[MachineMasters]

I believe when Miller and Birky ran the mile they came directly from Knoxville where they raced the weekend/night before. Miller had a bad crash in the Knoxville feature and had major frame damage to repair in the Knoxville pits, and I think Richards helped him with the porta-power and/or welded in part of a new rail.

Both him and Birky had non-quickchange rear ends with their fuel cells shoved forward. Very little rear % and the bodies were massaged more than normal.

[mcarter815]

An ARCA car is practically an M1 Abrams main battle tank compared to a dirt late model. It has a steel body DLM has a body made of flimsy aluminum. An ARCA chassis is perimeter, which means that it goes way over to the passenger door. A DLM chassis is offset, the cage stops around a foot and a half to the right of the driver. An ARCA car weighs 3500 lbs a DLM weighs 2300 lbs. An ARCA car I believe has 550 horsepower a DLM has depending on who you ask 800 to 900 horsepower. How much faster? They’re 9 seconds faster than the NASCAR trucks at Eldora. The answer? I don’t know, but way, way faster.

I believe they started running the composite body at all ARCA events this year. There is a guy in my neighborhood whose son races in ARCA and he was telling me they needed to spend a bunch of money to put a new composite body on.

[Rocky]

I believe they started running the composite body at all ARCA events this year. There is a guy in my neighborhood whose son races in ARCA and he was telling me they needed to spend a bunch of money to put a new composite body on.

Hmm, okay. I haven’t watched an ARCA race in a real long time. They used to follow Cup rules. And have drivers over 19 years old too. Back in the Stone Age.

[chathamracefan]

As a side note, the ARCA race at Springfield used to be a great show. Drew close to 40 cars back in the 90's. Now it is down to drawing right around 20 cars. And only about 12 of those are competitive. Sign of the times in the asphalt world I suppose. There aren't as many "career" ARCA guys nowadays. Body rules as mentioned and I think they switched to a crate engine a couple years back. Those costs drove several guys out.

[Rocky]

As a side note, the ARCA race at Springfield used to be a great show. Drew close to 40 cars back in the 90's. Now it is down to drawing right around 20 cars. And only about 12 of those are competitive. Sign of the times in the asphalt world I suppose. There aren't as many "career" ARCA guys nowadays. Body rules as mentioned and I think they switched to a crate engine a couple years back. Those costs drove several guys out.

The biggest problem asphalt has, other than asphalt... is the narrative that if you’re not in an xfinity car by the time you are 20, you’re a bum. I tend to disagree he’ll if Bubba Pollard or Johnny Van Doorn showed up at my shop looking for a ride for Saturday night I would wish I had one for him. They used to have stars. Not anymore just a bunch of nameless kids mostly.

[brsteg]

The biggest problem asphalt has, other than asphalt... is the narrative that if you’re not in an xfinity car by the time you are 20, you’re a bum. I tend to disagree he’ll if Bubba Pollard or Johnny Van Doorn showed up at my shop looking for a ride for Saturday night I would wish I had one for him. They used to have stars. Not anymore just a bunch of nameless kids mostly.

Nailed it.......

[Highside Hustler25]

Darren Miller has the track record at Springfield at 27.645.. correct me if I'm wrong.. growing up, this my favorite race. It's where we got to see all the big names. Started going in the early 90's until the last won that held there that Darren won.

Miller has the track record for Lates. I'd say the USAC open wheel guys are a tick faster.
Sammy Swindell held the track record for quite a long time from back in the 90's. WoO Sprint car event. Not sure if it is still intact. Lap speed was close to 150MPH.

[jhanson]

I found Sammy Swindell doing a 145.637 mph lap in WOO sprint at Springfield in 1998
For some history you can google "Illinois State Fairground Track Facts" by Jay Hardin --various car classes
(sorry I don't know how to attach stuff---I'm low tech---hee hee hee)

[doyle hargraves]

The first year they started having that race back in the 90s my driver set fast time. We had ran Macon the night before and never changed the setup because we really didn’t know what to expect. Spent all night the night before putting on a new slick body we had made up. Went out there and hot lapped and the speed just about ripped the dang thing off Had to hurry up and add a bunch of braces before qualifying. Ended up leading the feature for quite a few laps and started running out of fuel while leading and had to pull off. We were on alky and were burning over a gallon a lap and with a 40 lap feature and a 32 gallon cell it just didn’t pencil out lol

[jhanson]

fun memories--thanks

[Snowmanracr21]

A little Springfield Mile History.

WoO sanctioned the Springfield Mile thru 2002. (Birky)
Dirtcar sanctioned in 2003. (Lanigan)
Stacker2Extreeme 2004 (Birky)
Stacker2/WoO/UMP 2005 (Bloomer)
UMP sanctioned 2006 (Miller) < last year they ran on the mile.

The race was labeled as the Fall Nationals and was moved to LaSalle in 2007 (Jeep)
I believe it was rained out in 2008. (scheduled @LaSalle.) By 2010 the event was moved to Eldora.

Eldora had the Fall Nationals way before 2010. I attended many in the mid and late 90s when they ran sat night and sunday afternoon. Then competed during the 2000s until they were cancelled and moved to I55 2 years ago.

[golddirt]

I don’t ever recall the Illinois fall national being ran in Eldora speedway that race died in LaSalle I believe you are thinking of the UMP nationals

[Cooter Davenport]

Here's an old Track Enterprises press release...

UMP Summernationals
Set to Invade DuQuoin July 1
1st Appearance of Late Models in Two Years!
Marion, IL June 24, 2001- Can Batesville, Arkansas’ Billy Moyer be as dominant at the DuQuoin State Fairgrounds as he has been at the Illinois State Fair mile in Springfield? That’s the question that race fans will be asking themselves as they file into the revamped facility on Sunday, July 1 to view the action in one of the richest events of the United Midwestern Promoters Summernational Series.

Moyer is the only four-time winner of the 40-mile Illinois Fall Nationals event in Springfield and the current 1-lap track record holder at the Illinois State Fair mile. He heads a strong contingent of nearly fifty area and national late model drivers that are expected to invade the park-like setting of the DuQuoin facility.

A company of Illinois hotshoes such as Jimmy Burwell (Mt. Vernon, Il), Shannon Babb (Decatur, Il), Bob Pierce (Oakwood, IL), Randy Korte (Highland, IL), Billy Drake (Bloomington, IL), Doug McCammon (Robinson, Il), Matt Taylor (Springfield, IL) and Joe Ross, Jr. (Mechanicsburg, Il) are expected to battle area and nationally known drivers such as Moyer, Bill Frye (Arkansas), Steve Barnett (Indiana), C.J. Rayburn (Indiana), Terry English (Kentucky), Ed Dixon (Missouri), Kevin Claycomb (Indiana), John Gill (Indiana) USAC star Jack Hewitt (Ohio) and Brian Birkhofer (Iowa) for the $10,000 first prize in the 14th scheduled event of the 26 race Summernational series.

The big announcement this week was that NASCAR Winston Cup star Ken Schrader will return to the DuQuoin State Fairgrounds for the first time since 1986. Kenny’s last appearance at DuQuoin was in the late Glen Neibel’s V-6 Chevrolet USAC Silver Crown dirt car. The car suffered a mechanical failure in qualifying, ending Schrader’s day prematurely. While Schrader has won in three different types of cars on the Illinois State Fair mile, and has a couple of wins at the Indiana State Fair mile, he has yet to find victory lane at DuQuoin, the dirt mile closest to his Fenton, Missouri home.
Moyer took the checkered flag in the first event of the Summernational series to actually be run, at the Kentucky Lake Motor Speedway, after the scheduled opener at Brownstown, Indiana was a washout. Billy Drake took top honors and the $5000 prize at Danville, while current 1-lap track record holder Dan Schlieper won at Hales Corners, Wisconsin. The June 21 event at Crown Point, Indiana was also a victim of Mother Nature.

The last late model appearance at the DuQuoin "Magic Mile" was a UDTRA Hav-A-Tampa series event in June 1999. This was also the first ever late model race held at DuQuoin. Thirty-three late models made the trek to DuQuoin in 1999, with the 40-mile main event going to one of the most popular late model pilots in the country. Tennessee native Scott Bloomquist took the feature lead on lap 18 from Kentucky’s Steve Francis, and led the last 23 circuits enroute to a $12,000 payday.
Drivers on July 1 will be shooting for Pewaukee, Wisconsin native Dan Schleiper’s 1999 one-lap track record of 30.041 (119.836 mph), the 8-lap track record of 3:59.84 held by Bloomquist, and the ten lap record of 5:07.83 held by Clayton Christenberry. No 40-lap track record currently exists for the late models.

Also on the card will be heats and a 20-mile main event for the UMP Modifieds, who will battle for a $2000 first prize in their feature event. The modifieds made an appearance with the Hav-A-Tampa cars in 1999, and have been a mainstay of the Labor Day racing weekend at the DuQuoin State Fair. Nearly 60 modifieds are expected to be in the pit area race morning, featuring drivers such as John Seets, 1999 June event winner Jerry Buck, 1998 State Fair race winner Jim Sherreck, 2000 State Fair race winner Kyle Steffens, 1999 State Fair race winner Kevin Gundaker, former NASCAR weekly racing series champ Jeff Leka, Jeff Parks, Matt Simpson, Marty Hiser and Brian Shaw.

The unofficial track record for 20 miles for the modifieds is currently held by Kevin Gundaker at 11:36.69 (103.346 mph).
The pit gate opens at 9 a.m., with the Grandstand open at 11 a.m. Practice gets underway at 12 noon with qualifications at 1 p.m. and racing at 2. Late models will qualify and run heat races and a semi-feature, while the modifieds will draw for heat race position. With the early afternoon start, it is possible that the feature events could be run under the new lights. Rules and ticket information can be found by contacting the promoter, Track Enterprises at 217-764-3200, or on the world wide web at www.trackenterprises.com, or the DuQuoin State Fair box office.