WOO LMS / DIRTcar Technical Bulletin.. Effective Feb. 1, 2020. Droop Rule & penalties

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I think we can all agree late model racing isn’t growing. So you implement changes. To keep going down the same road is idiocracy. So you make changes, people will be butt hurt, but they’ll get over it.

[Josh Bayko]

I wonder what the reactions will be when Lucas implements the same rule on March 1st.

[fastford]

I wonder what the reactions will be when Lucas implements the same rule on March 1st.

i hope they wait till may , there finally coming back to TST in april and i want to see them run like they are now , plus my local boys will have to make changes for this one race and to have any chance of doing good , they need to run as they are....JMO...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

CnB,

Agreed, you need to do something. You need to do something that makes a difference and isn't an ordeal to enforce. This isn't it.

[Morgs153]

A few critics are being a bit too melodramatic by half. I worked tech in an asphalt LM series for eight years. I measured a lot of race cars and a lot of things on race cars in a whole lot of different pit areas (some nice, others not so nice). Asphalt racers tech a whole lot more stuff than dirt late models and that is probably what some people just aren't used to. For those who think you need a perfectly level surface plate for enforcement of this, you don't. Finding the best possible place at the venue you're at, for sure. The thing is, the location of the rule check has to be the same for everyone. Not surface plate perfect, but universal for everyone there. Now if I'm a competitor or crew chief and I show up at a track with my shop set up and this new rule is in place, the first place I visit is the droop station in the tech area. I check my data with their tech director and how they check it to make sure were jumping off legal at the start of the event. I don't wait until the end of the feature event to find out if I'm off. If the penalties are based on 16ths, are you going to try and cut it that close? Yeah, some will I suppose but that's on them. As a fan I'm not pro or con droop rule. I'm very interested in it from a tech standpoint and I think this is a relatively cheap implementation of a rule (many aren't). If this doesn't work as intended, it is easy to back away from.

[President Clinton]

Imagine the racing world if Lucas decides to go against this rule????? Would be a major shakeup and statement!!!!!

[MEE]

At least it's a start.

All of us fans are always yelling for change and when they try
people get all upset !!!

Give it time we might like it.
They have to start some where. It may lead to more change's
that you want to see.

[manwplan]

At least it's a start.

All of us fans are always yelling for change and when they try
people get all upset !!!

Give it time we might like it.
They have to start some where. It may lead to more change's
that you want to see.

If the racing is good, which I would argue in general it has been the last few years, why do you as a fan care what rules we have on our race cars?

[JM15]

A few critics are being a bit too melodramatic by half. I worked tech in an asphalt LM series for eight years. I measured a lot of race cars and a lot of things on race cars in a whole lot of different pit areas (some nice, others not so nice). Asphalt racers tech a whole lot more stuff than dirt late models and that is probably what some people just aren't used to. For those who think you need a perfectly level surface plate for enforcement of this, you don't. Finding the best possible place at the venue you're at, for sure. The thing is, the location of the rule check has to be the same for everyone. Not surface plate perfect, but universal for everyone there. Now if I'm a competitor or crew chief and I show up at a track with my shop set up and this new rule is in place, the first place I visit is the droop station in the tech area. I check my data with their tech director and how they check it to make sure were jumping off legal at the start of the event. I don't wait until the end of the feature event to find out if I'm off. If the penalties are based on 16ths, are you going to try and cut it that close? Yeah, some will I suppose but that's on them. As a fan I'm not pro or con droop rule. I'm very interested in it from a tech standpoint and I think this is a relatively cheap implementation of a rule (many aren't). If this doesn't work as intended, it is easy to back away from.

The guy I help and our crew chief bitched about it when Ray started this and said we won't go to his races and all that. But after thinking about it and actually putting the chain on, it wasn't a big deal setup wise. Ray and his guys did a good job checking it and we had to lower the deck a little the first time they checked it but every time after that it was always the same. We tend to blow things up sometimes because we don't like change but change is necessary for progress.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The guy I help and our crew chief bitched about it when Ray started this and said we won't go to his races and all that. But after thinking about it and actually putting the chain on, it wasn't a big deal setup wise. Ray and his guys did a good job checking it and we had to lower the deck a little the first time they checked it but every time after that it was always the same. We tend to blow things up sometimes because we don't like change but change is necessary for progress.

We've been changing, and it has resulted in crap. Let's reset.

[hardracer32]

Why not fix the real problems. Enforce body rules and fix the noses.

That is exactly right! They are headed in the right direction. All they really need to do is bring the droop rule down to more like 46-48" and make the MAX nose height about 6-8" less than it is right now on the right front. If I could really have my way, they would also make them bring the Right Front tire back in underneath the front fender. Between those changes you would really see a difference in the racing (I think it would be better) and it would help close the gap between the teams who have the money for humongous engines and all the latest shock technology and those who don't.

I think it would level the playing field all the way around. And none of those changes would cost hardly anything at all to implement.

It's not about limiting what people can spend, it's about limiting how much advantage teams can get just because they have the money to spend. If you reign in the bodies, it doesn't cost anything hardly but it negates the effects of all the high dollar tie down shocks by reducing downforce and taking away traction. Then you don't NEED or HAVE to have a $60k motor to be able to be competitive.

Just my humble opinion.

[MEE]

If the racing is good, which I would argue in general it has been the last few years, why do you as a fan care what rules we have on our race cars?

I'm not trying to stir anything up,I just want to see it more
of the driver than the dollars and engineers.

I can see it from a drivers aspect too, it's hard to take change some times.

[Morgs153]

Stability in rules is key. I have never had the chance to go to a big block Super Dirtcar event yet, but I want to someday. Now those are expensive race cars too but you can look at photos and videos of them for the last 20 years and hardly tell the differences up to today. Maybe someone knows more and can enlighten me. Now late models are faster and the suspension is much more high tech, I get that, but those mods put on some very good racing. Part of that I'm sure is due to the fact that there has been stability in their rules for many years. I look at photos of late models from 2005 (when they looked very nice) up to now and the differences are profound. For those who say, fix the bodies, I'm seeing what you mean there for sure. The point is with any rule, it has to have stability, ease of enforcement, and equity of enforcement to all competitors. Body rules, droop rules, etc., it is about preserving this sport and putting on a good show.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Stability in rules is key. I have never had the chance to go to a big block Super Dirtcar event yet, but I want to someday. Now those are expensive race cars too but you can look at photos and videos of them for the last 20 years and hardly tell the differences up to today. Maybe someone knows more and can enlighten me. Now late models are faster and the suspension is much more high tech, I get that, but those mods put on some very good racing. Part of that I'm sure is due to the fact that there has been stability in their rules for many years. I look at photos of late models from 2005 (when they looked very nice) up to now and the differences are profound. For those who say, fix the bodies, I'm seeing what you mean there for sure. The point is with any rule, it has to have stability, ease of enforcement, and equity of enforcement to all competitors. Body rules, droop rules, etc., it is about preserving this sport and putting on a good show.

You sir, are a genius. If we had kept the product the same, like other forms of racing, the racing would be the same. A lot of the speed is the body. It's nothing like it was.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

You sir, are a genius. If we had kept the product the same, like other forms of racing, the racing would be the same. A lot of the speed is the body. It's nothing like it was.

Yeah, I dunno if he has just been looking, and finally signed up or what, but he’s a pretty smart cookie so far.

[dirtcrazy4u]

The Northeast big block mods are very technical race cars. They too use air as a major chassis advantage.

[Dlmfan123]

there is most definitely an aero dependency in big blocks, not as much as a late model but there bodies act in the same way as a lm does. I think late models look bad as$ at the moment, better then they have ever looked

[dirtcrazy4u]

Morgs, I don't disagree. What I question is, a tape measure, from one to another can measure a difference of a 16th of a inch. There not giving teams a +/-- measurement. It's going to be interesting especially if a team gets a dq.

[Josh Bayko]

Big block mods currently create too much rear downforce. So much, in fact, it actually creates some lift in the nose. Modified folks do whine about aero dependency in that division too.

[billetbirdcage]

Morgs, I don't disagree. What I question is, a tape measure, from one to another can measure a difference of a 16th of a inch. There not giving teams a +/-- measurement. It's going to be interesting especially if a team gets a dq.

That variance is what got us where we are now. deck height is 38" plus 1" tolerance so what happens it's 39" and nobody is gonna set at 38". That's how we grew from 36 to today's 39".

The tolerance they are using is listed, slightly over and you get a slight penalty not an out right DQ. The more you want to push it the more penalty you risk.