Who is telling the truth about SLMs?

[NorthAlabama]

Tracks, Promoters and non SLM drivers complain that SLMs steal from the track and do not support the overall picture (SLMs are a non support group local tracks state). SLMs drain the purse of money. SLMs do not draw enough of fans to pay their way. Tracks can not stay open due to the high cost of SLMs.... Now.... You have The Mag and 411 having mostly only SLMs $5000 races with no fans. Who is paying? The drivers and pit crew? Club racing ? Like a nearby track who complains that they don't make any money on SLMs but lose (ideal came from Moulton's history), with a screwed up non organized Super Series last year that was doomed to start with their rules and odd purse payout? What gives here, something doesn't add up......

[Jking24]

Your not going to get ppv for crates and u cars

[NeedforLMspeed]

SLMs do not draw enough of fans to pay their way

Oh really...


If there was a track across the road from me but didn't run LM I'd drive 2 hrs to the track that runs them

[NorthAlabama]

Like I stated, The Magnolia and 411 had each a $5000 covid 19 non race fan race this past weekend. Why do local promoters bad mouth Supers and refuse to have them due to not enough fans to support that class? Look what The Mag and 411 just did, no fans. And The Mag stopped running Supers as a normal class last year. Another run around lie?

[Rocky]

I'm not actually sure what a Super even IS anymore. If it's only cars with open motors or what? Because I've been to some tracks cough cough Oakshade.... Where a whole lot of the cars really aren't all that high dollar. Plus I've seen a lot of cars with "limited" engines run really good in "Super" races. Maybe not a Hagerstown or something. I think that it should be if you got a crate you got a crate, if you got a Vic Hill motor, you got that but if you aren't willing to run for whatever they're paying too bad go somewhere else. I get it that on a regular Saturday night that they can't afford to pay 3500 to win and $400 start money back 24 cars and our fans can't afford to pay $20-25 a ticket to cover that purse. It should be between $1500 and 2000 to win every week and $200 to start so guys can pay for fuel to get there and back. If you can't afford to race for that then you gonna have to travel a little. And you gonna have to figure out if you're really doing better money wise. And you're gonna have to figure out if you actually want to have a $65,000 motor to race for plastic trophies and beer money. Or maybe you can run a locally built 406.

Our fans are poor people, we can't ask them to pay for that but we can still have a good race for them. There's a saying that goes you're only worth what you're willing to work for. It applies here.

[kidrock]

I'm not actually sure what a Super even IS anymore. If it's only cars with open motors or what? Because I've been to some tracks cough cough Oakshade.... Where a whole lot of the cars really aren't all that high dollar. Plus I've seen a lot of cars with "limited" engines run really good in "Super" races. Maybe not a Hagerstown or something. I think that it should be if you got a crate you got a crate, if you got a Vic Hill motor, you got that but if you aren't willing to run for whatever they're paying too bad go somewhere else. I get it that on a regular Saturday night that they can't afford to pay 3500 to win and $400 start money back 24 cars and our fans can't afford to pay $20-25 a ticket to cover that purse. It should be between $1500 and 2000 to win every week and $200 to start so guys can pay for fuel to get there and back. If you can't afford to race for that then you gonna have to travel a little. And you gonna have to figure out if you're really doing better money wise. And you're gonna have to figure out if you actually want to have a $65,000 motor to race for plastic trophies and beer money. Or maybe you can run a locally built 406.

Our fans are poor people, we can't ask them to pay for that but we can still have a good race for them. There's a saying that goes you're only worth what you're willing to work for. It applies here.

Very well said Rocky!!

[3 wide]

There is a formula for running late models on a weekly basis but it doesn't include running everything you can drag in the pits that is the big problem.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Local slm is dying. Tracks that do run them weekly have no car counts to speak of. The ones that do are from owners that have been in dirt racing a long time. Most run the higher paying local shows, and truthfully it's a good deal for both owners and promotors. As fans you now need to travel to see a half decent local slm show. Or you wait and catch a lucas or WoO show that you can get too.

[Rocky]

Local slm is dying. Tracks that do run them weekly have no car counts to speak of. The ones that do are from owners that have been in dirt racing a long time. Most run the higher paying local shows, and truthfully it's a good deal for both owners and promotors. As fans you now need to travel to see a half decent local slm show. Or you wait and catch a lucas or WoO show that you can get too.

Where I live, local Super racing is dead, has been for years. But here's the rub: if I take my limited to a Ultimate race (that I admit I only run like 5 times a year), I get a whopping 50# weight break for the 358 motor we ain't got camaro clips and leaf springs anymore. It's a super with a (sometimes) smaller engine. On a 1/4 mile a good limited is just as fast. As long as you don't have a driver that sucks like me driving it. So the question is: Or is it?

The next question is, how much of this is really necessary?

I don't have the answers really but I feel like you should be able to win a local late model race with about a $25,000 motor. I haven't ever asked anybody how much it costs to buy a 604 and then get it cheated up. Probably about 14k.

What if we broke the seals off those motors, put good pistons and rods in them and ported the heads and intakes instead?

If you had a 383 with aluminium heads in 89, guess what you had, a Super that's what.

I'm rambling here but the bottom line is out on the little tiny bullrings there's plenty of race tracks that are selling Super Late Models that are not quite what the program says. Even some with legendary racing.

[kazual]

It’s fairly easy, if it makes economic sense it will happen. My belief is that the $5000 to win pay per view events we’ve seen recently were somewhat experimental by promoters to see if it could work. I have no idea how much promoters get from PPV. It likely varies a lot but there sure is a proliferation of them recently.

[Kromulous]

I think the notion that tracks cant survive without SLMs is dangerously wrong.

Look out at the Midwest, nothing but Mods, even crate mods are taking off now. USMTS, IMCA etc etc

Crate LMs dont even really exist in a lot of areas out there, and the tracks are making it and still racing.

SLMs are evolving into a Special event type class, Regional level racers will only exist in another 2 or so years. The purse for a local show cant support a SLM, simple as that.

Look at it this way, a new top shelf SLM, Touring level 80 to 100k ?? roughly, how much money is gonna take for you to start it, and run it wide open? What about a nice regional level car, a couple years old, say 40 to 50k? how much to do the same? the math isnt there. We had about 30k in a local level SLM and was trying to contend for $1200 to win, its bad math all the way around.

[NeedforLMspeed]

I think the touring level is a little higher than that.

[mcarter815]

The track near me that pays the most to the sport mod class doesn't run any late models. It also has great car counts in the mods, sport mods, stock cars, and 4-cylinders that it runs weekly and the stands are usually half full most weeks. SLMs are cool, but they aren't necessary for a track to survive.

[dirtSLMracing]

We have discussed the cost in SLM racing many times.. but I still think if you bring the cost down then the car counts would increase big time. I think the best way to go is a spec shock. Im not smart enough to have all the answers but if all the cars were on $100 shocks would fans know the difference? Always could pull one off the top three to make sure it has not been tampered with. Limit the choices, maybe a standard and a stiff, that's your choice. Work with it and move bars and go racing. ONCE again, I dont claim to have all the answers.. just a suggestion.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

We have discussed the cost in SLM racing many times.. but I still think if you bring the cost down then the car counts would increase big time. I think the best way to go is a spec shock. Im not smart enough to have all the answers but if all the cars were on $100 shocks would fans know the difference? Always could pull one off the top three to make sure it has not been tampered with. Limit the choices, maybe a standard and a stiff, that's your choice. Work with it and move bars and go racing. ONCE again, I dont claim to have all the answers.. just a suggestion.

People make shocks expensive. I just had 2 complete sets of Ohlins redone for $1600. One set was a pile of trash I took a chance on and they ended up needing a lot of parts. Despite their age, the shocks are still the same internals as what Jimmy Owens is killing people with.

It would cost 50 stacks to buy Jimmy's engine and $12k to freshen it.

[Josh Bayko]

Tracks that run more than one class of late models are cutting the nose off all of them.

[dirtSLMracing]

Mastersbilt..

I know engines are expensive.. my counter to that is not all tracks take a big motor. Guy with a good limited can be competitive at some tracks but get beat on $5000 shock packages. Not saying my shock idea is awesome just a thought.

[Waldo]

Two things you need.
#1. A stop watch
#2. Air pressure gauge.
You will see the truth.

[Waldo]

If tracks posted qualifying times for Crates and supers that ran at that track on the same night you would see.

[Jim11h]

Super latemodel is a class in which aluminum or steel fits and rules are limited to allow almost any combination of car motor suspension chassis design etc.

Crate, limited, etc have more specific rules!

Lots of areas the tracks have 3-4 classes that all look identical and that kills the headliner in this situation. Super, limited, 604, & 602 all at same track in own divisions, you really think the casual fan knows difference? All they know is its a latemodel