Starter/direct drive

[Rajflyboy]

I really love sprint cars but really hate the fact they need push vehicles to start. I guess they will never have a starter of some sort. Any thoughts?

[JimBo]

Yeah I feel that same way. I understand why sprint cars do not have starters but it is a burden on a track that does not run sprints every week.

[Rajflyboy]

It’s another case where there is always that 1 car that has trouble. 95% of them crank right away and that 1 or 2 cars mess it up for the rest.

[CIRF]

Putting starters on sprint cars and midgets involves much more than throwing a battery and starter on board.

I avoid tracks that only occasionally schedule dirt open wheel events. They don’t have the expertise and organization to run a tight and time economical show and it diminishes the rep of the track and of the push start divisions. Fairbury, IL is good example of a facility that runs the best late model and modified events in the country but are woefully inadequate at running a dirt open wheel show.

Every track that schedules a dirt open wheel event should observe and learn at The Chili Bowl as to how to best run it. Emmett & Co. run at least 80 to 90 cars each night 4 nights in a row and on Saturday they run literally dozens of alphabet soup races. They know how to do it.

Bottom line.......it’s the organization skills, not the cars that turn people off. Don’t blame the cars, blame the people who run the tracks!

[Rajflyboy]

I agree and chili bowl is normally good but this year they did not have a good year but that’s not the norm. Need plenty of push vehicles and back up vehicles to get everyone started quick.

[Late_Model_Mark]

We have zero issues at Talladega when we bring in the USCS twice a year. Plenty of push vehicles to fire them up.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

[Rajflyboy]

We have zero issues at Talladega when we bring in the USCS twice a year. Plenty of push vehicles to fire them up. Late Model MarkTST Announcer

I guess I’m just spoiled from watching Late Models. I love sprint cars but Sammy and a Steve just are very hard to replace.

[CIRF]

I attended all 5 nights of the Chili Bowl last January. I have no idea what your talking about it not being good this year. Were you there?

What is it about late models that spoils you? I’ve been attending late model events since I was 8 years old and have yet to see anything that would spoil me or anyone else any more than a well run wingless 410 sprint or midget show.

[Rajflyboy]

I watched the chili bowl on tv (live). It took forever to get the feature going. Track prep. So much so that I said screw it and went to bed. I used to prefer the sprints but now I prefer the late models. Multiple reasons but no starters is definitely one of them.

[CIRF]

I watched the chili bowl on tv (live). It took forever to get the feature going. Track prep. So much so that I said screw it and went to bed. I used to prefer the sprints but now I prefer the late models. Multiple reasons but no starters is definitely one of them.

Enlighten me as to exactly how push start race cars were responsible for the huge delays in the running of the Saturday night Chili Bowl A-main?

You need to get your afternoon nap in anticipation of a late night! LOL!

I was there all 5 nights and believe me, The Chili Bowl is overall still one of the 2 or 3 best run dirt shows of any kind, year in, year out. I haven't attended the Knoxville Nationals but outside of that great event I feel as if I may have the credibility to definitively compare The Chili Bowl to the biggest dirt late model events due to the fact that I've attended over 20 World Hundreds, a half dozen late model Dream's, several DTWC's at Pennsboro, all but 2 Prairie Dirt Classic's, a couple dozen Herald & Review 100's and literally hundreds of weekly late model events over the years.

I began attending The Chili Bowl back before a live network TV broadcast was even dreamt of. Why they are delaying the Saturday night A-main and farting around so much falls squarely on the shoulders of live network TV. Prior to the live Saturday night network broadcasts the final 5 races (2 C-main's, 2 B-mains and the A-main) were run seamlessly with track prep being nothing more than a minor delay. There is a growing amount of discontent of late among those in the stands about the delay's. It's more than apparent what is going on and it isn't the fault of how The Chili Bowl finale' night racing is organized.
It's a shame that you aren't able to attend push start events that are well run and organized because cars with starters, clutches, batteries, fenders, aero package, jacked up left rear, right front hanging a foot beyond the right rear, etc. have nothing on a well run and organized push start event. FACT.

Personally, I really don't prefer one over the other in regards to dirt open wheel racing as compared to dirt late models. The excitement of the racing on any given night is not exceeded by one over the other, either way. I do, however, appreciate the fact that dirt open wheel racing requires somewhat more talent, skill and testicular dimensions for a driver to be considered among the best. There is a danger/survival element that diminishes some of the "moving a car out of the way in order to pass" mentality. I've never been a big fan of hitting a car as a method to pass it.

I've been told by someone who has won big races in both types cars and is in multiple hall's of fame that the baddest, nastiest car's on dirt are wingless 410 sprint cars and they require bit more talent, skill, determination and testicular dimensions, and the toughest cars to set up to win are dirt late models. I take the man's word explicitly!

[Rajflyboy]

I do try to see sprints when they are in Western, NC when they show up.

[CIRF]

I do try to see sprints when they are in Western, NC when they show up.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, please. Without knowing for sure I'm going to speculate that the dirt open wheel cars (that includes midgets, winged sprint cars and wingless sprint cars) race in the Carolina's sparingly. I'm going to again speculate that the time management organization is not up to Chili Bowl or Indiana Sprint/Midget Week standards. Don't make the mistake of dismissing the starterless cars because the people who are in control of time management of the event aren't real good at it..

In my case when I go to Fairbury, IL to a midget or a sprint car show I understand the track management does not make those events a top priority like they do the PDC or a couple of other dirt late model shows, and justifiably so. Tracks that do not have dirt open wheel cars as their top fan draw and primary top divisions probably won't have Chili Bowl type organization and time management skills in practice. I understand how that works so I'm not surprised or disappointed when the show runs longer than it should. But man! We certainly hear the rumbling in the grandstands from the hard core dirt late model fans complaining about how the push start cars are such a pain in the ass. I know! I've heard it.

Getting back to The Chili Bowl I hope you better understand why things are as sluggish during the TV portion on Saturday night in light of the circumstances in play. The other 5 nights are the finest run events of any type racing, starters or no starters, you'll see all year! The Chili Bowl is a partial victim of it's own success. Anytime television gets a foothold the event itself seems to suffer. We see it at college football games holding up play 'till TV comes out of commercials and basketball games are held up for the same reasons. It's a bi-product of video culture.

[Rajflyboy]

It’s definitely hard to have a live tv event on dirt. Lucas does a pretty good job with it 👍. I think the WOO does a good job with push cars. They are well prepared. USAC events I have been to not as much.

[CIRF]

How long has it been since you attended a USAC National event featuring any of the 3 touring divisions? I attend a minimum of a half dozen USAC National Midget & Sprint Car shows a year and usually 3 100 mile/100 lap USAC Silver Crown events. What you say is beyond refute when speaking of 5 to 7 years ago. Since Levi Jones and Kirk Spridgeon and their staff have taken over the reigns the USAC portions of the events I attend are very, very economically and efficiently run in comparison to prior to those two guys taking charge. I can't always say that for the lower divisions that support the USAC events but that's another conversation.

We attended the 2 WoO's Sprint Car events at Fairbury, Illinois in 2018 & 2019 and those were not organized as well as one might think the premier dirt racing division should be run. Again, I put most of the blame on the track since we've attended WoO's events at other tracks that were superbly run. The crowd at Fairbury was predominantly dirt late model regulars who weren't all that enthused about the "tumble bunnies" but are avid supporters of their track and most of them were not all that impressed with the organization. It came as no surprise that when the 2020 WoO's Sprint Car schedule was released back in December Fairbury wasn't part of it.

[Rajflyboy]

No very often but they ran at Concord maybe 15 years ago and it was absolute horrendous. Again they don’t come around here much. USCS seems to do a good job from what I have seen.

[CIRF]

15 years ago?!! Seriously! LOL!

I have to agree with you on the bad USAC show 15 years ago. But don't ya' think it's a bit of a stretch to base a critique/opinion on something that happened 15 years ago?

Raj, if you don't believe one other thing I've said or will say here believe this! The USAC that you experienced 15 years ago no longer exist's. Andy Hillenburg started the trend to very good and timely USAC events and when Levi & Spridge took over for Andy the Club and his successors have gone on to take USAC to levels of quality that no one under retirement age has ever seen.

First and foremost Andy, then Levi and Spridge have made USAC a great place to race for the competitors. This is why 40+ cars show up at Springfield, IL and Du Quoin, IL for their respective Silver Crown events. The environment that those gentlemen have created has transformed a stodgy outfit run by a bunch of rigid old men in yellow shirts to one of adapting to the needs and wants of competitors and spectators alike.

Now, those guys still don't control how organized the individual tracks are but they seem to be very discriminant of where they race and the overall quality their scheduled tracks are capable of. I would love nothing more than for USAC Sprint Car's/Midget's to race at FALS but I believe it would be somewhat detrimental to the USAC brand if they raced there before FALS is able to get their open wheel act together.

[Rajflyboy]

We see a lot of different types of racing. That event at Concord was probably the worst run race I have seen. Not sure who was at fault or if we just hit it on a bad night. Memorable though none the less.

[CIRF]

We see a lot of different types of racing. That event at Concord was probably the worst run race I have seen. Not sure who was at fault or if we just hit it on a bad night. Memorable though none the less.

I would say that the USAC of that era was incompetent to the degree that what you witnessed was probably the norm for those days. I lived through that era and USAC was regularly awful in those days. But again, please don't base your opinion of USAC based on those days. The guys running USAC now are a world away from the clowns of those days.

[Late_Model_Mark]

Part of the allure of open wheel racing to me is the push start. Just like in my other world of nitro, there was nothing better than a front engine nitro dragster push start back in my younger days. Second was the push starts at my favorite dirt track, Ascot Park. Been around the block on this, there is some delay in push starting the open wheelers, especially after a red flag. There is no denial on my end on that minor delay. It is however all good.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

[over4T]

As one of the guys in the full bodied stuff that usually plays second fiddle to the open wheel cars I've sat through enough endless sprint car mains at tracks that don't have a clue about both original starts and restarts when it comes to pushing them off.

While we sit and swelter in line for, sometimes, nearly an hour the incompetent tracks run around in circles like the old silent movie Keystone Cops trying to clear the often upside down cars and, then, get them all pushed off and in proper order again. We swear to ourselves we will never get in that situation again..till next week. That said the tracks that get it like, as Mark said, the late lamented Ascot as well as Placerville Speedway the delays are very minor and quickly returned to racing.

P'Ville has had a crew of Jeeps that have pushed off the Sprinters for decades and a lot of tracks around the country should send their bozos there to get some lessons in how it should be done. They get things going nearly as fast as the startered cars and it's a pleasure to watch them.

The worst shows with Sprints to be the backup class to, hands down, is the World of Outlaws. Their officials watch the track and when it suits what they're looking for will kick the other class off and run the WoO stuff. Then we get the leftovers on a used up track and, many times, a shortened main due to time constraints. We have refused for several years to be any part of a WoO show.

I guess the point is if the track has a clue it's all good. If not the track surely won't gain new fans with a dragged out program.