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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Lost, but way ahead of schedule
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    1,359

    Default

    I got to watch a few of the Florida races online, and the overhead or drone shots really gave a good look at how skewed the nose is on some of these things anymore. They look ridiculous, but I've always been a "form follows function" kind of guy anyway.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    271

    Default

    We did shift the body over six inches to the right several years ago and it did seem to help a little.
    One thing we did find which hurt us was cupping the right side door. Think about it this way, with a cupped door, air will push the car up on the right side top of the door.
    The fastest way to run your right side door is to slant it out from the top to the bottom.
    This will add downforce and traction.
    Shifting the body right will also have another plus. It puts a bigger gap between the front of the left rear tire and the back of the left rear tire. This will create a vacuum and pull air out from under the deck. The spoiler width is the limiting factor that makes this happen. Just don't angle the left rear quarter to create a parachute-like function under the car.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    With the lr's up in the clouds these days, how much of the aero load is the rr getting?

    What happened to the theory that 2 pairs of equally loaded tires made more traction?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    With the lr's up in the clouds these days, how much of the aero load is the rr getting?

    What happened to the theory that 2 pairs of equally loaded tires made more traction?
    The rr gets all the mechanical load. That watch spring rf don't take any.
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 .................... Eldora - 8
    East Bay - 6 .................. Richmond -1
    Florence -1 ................. Lawrenceburg -1
    Atomic -6 .................. Circle City -1
    Tazewell -1 .................. Mudlick-1
    Moler -4
    Portsmouth -2. .....................Tyler Co. -1

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Would it not be beneficial to get the rr up in the air, at least some?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Would it not be beneficial to get the rr up in the air, at least some?
    Down the straightaway, yes.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    With the lr's up in the clouds these days, how much of the aero load is the rr getting?

    What happened to the theory that 2 pairs of equally loaded tires made more traction?
    Everyone gets hung up on loading the tires equally.
    Ideal situation is for the tires to produce the correct amount of traction at the correct point in the corner.

    For arguments sake, Set your car up with a single crazy wheel on the front.
    Using loading on the tires on your solid, staggered axle to vary traction, complete a lap around the track.
    Use the current theory of making the LR nearly solid thru loading of the bars and heavy compression on the shock.

    Just food for thought.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 95shaw View Post
    Everyone gets hung up on loading the tires equally.
    Ideal situation is for the tires to produce the correct amount of traction at the correct point in the corner.

    For arguments sake, Set your car up with a single crazy wheel on the front.
    Using loading on the tires on your solid, staggered axle to vary traction, complete a lap around the track.
    Use the current theory of making the LR nearly solid thru loading of the bars and heavy compression on the shock.

    Just food for thought.
    I'm not going to argue about over damping LR, but the suspension is less rigid now than at anytime since big hike setups started
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 .................... Eldora - 8
    East Bay - 6 .................. Richmond -1
    Florence -1 ................. Lawrenceburg -1
    Atomic -6 .................. Circle City -1
    Tazewell -1 .................. Mudlick-1
    Moler -4
    Portsmouth -2. .....................Tyler Co. -1

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Not going to argue that either.

    The premise is that with both tires equally loaded on a staggered, solid axle, the car will turn toward the smaller tire, in an arc described by the difference in circumference and the distance between them.

    To travel in a straight line, one of the tires must slip. Most likely the least loaded tire.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 95shaw View Post
    Not going to argue that either.

    The premise is that with both tires equally loaded on a staggered, solid axle, the car will turn toward the smaller tire, in an arc described by the difference in circumference and the distance between them.

    To travel in a straight line, one of the tires must slip. Most likely the least loaded tire.

    Thats not the concept. Its two pair of equally loaded tires (lefts vs rights) makes more traction.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Thats not the concept. Its two pair of equally loaded tires (lefts vs rights) makes more traction.
    I don't see that happening anywhere on a lap with the current cars. Least of all in the corner, where the most traction is needed.

    We know that to utilize our stagger to most effect, the rear tires must be equally loaded. We want that to happen in the corner.
    At that point, g forces are high, removing weight from the lf thru the center of gravity. At some point in the corner, the lf extends to the end of travel, ie tether. The most weight on the lf occurs at turn in.
    Not seeing spoiler in the air counteracting all of that.
    Last edited by 95shaw; 02-24-2021 at 09:23 PM.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Would a dish style roof made out of sheet metal with like a 3/4 lip on the back help you or hurt you

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Ask a winged sprint car

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by potts5 View Post
    Would a dish style roof made out of sheet metal with like a 3/4 lip on the back help you or hurt you
    Air that goes over the roof does not reach the spoiler. Hopefully, that's hint enough...
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 .................... Eldora - 8
    East Bay - 6 .................. Richmond -1
    Florence -1 ................. Lawrenceburg -1
    Atomic -6 .................. Circle City -1
    Tazewell -1 .................. Mudlick-1
    Moler -4
    Portsmouth -2. .....................Tyler Co. -1

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Air that goes over the roof does not reach the spoiler. Hopefully, that's hint enough...
    My buddy said, many years ago, they found some slight downforce by putting a 1 1/2 " rounded strip (downward) on the back of the roof. Ive always done that since then, but dont know now if it helps.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,027

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    My buddy said, many years ago, they found some slight downforce by putting a 1 1/2 " rounded strip (downward) on the back of the roof. Ive always done that since then, but dont know now if it helps.
    Years ago, we had a convex roof, mounted level, it may have worked. Now, it's flat, mounted with 4" of rake and dynamically gains 5 more inches.
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 .................... Eldora - 8
    East Bay - 6 .................. Richmond -1
    Florence -1 ................. Lawrenceburg -1
    Atomic -6 .................. Circle City -1
    Tazewell -1 .................. Mudlick-1
    Moler -4
    Portsmouth -2. .....................Tyler Co. -1

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    134

    Default Something to try

    At your next practice session or hot lap session and you want to truly see where the air is flowing on your car. Sprinkle baby powder on the hood, deck, roof, nose etc. Run two or three hot laps and come in. You can then see how the air affected the baby powder on your car, where the most downforce is due to the higher amount of powder being in certain locations. Its an easy and homemade real time wind tunnel. It really works.

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