Data acquisition

[Jking24]

Alright so I've touched on this in a few threads and never really seem to get a good answer. From those of you familiar with and well versed in the data acquisition game. A few questions. This is all geared towards the Saturday night/ regional guy looking to improve his program. 1. What are the key features that you feel a system must have in order to be truly beneficial to most people.2. What systems are out their that fit our needs and are user friendly.3. Bottom line, if you were purchasing a system and budget was a factor what system would it be and why ? Thanks in advance

[billetbirdcage]

Alright so I've touched on this in a few threads and never really seem to get a good answer. From those of you familiar with and well versed in the data acquisition game. A few questions. This is all geared towards the Saturday night/ regional guy looking to improve his program. 1. What are the key features that you feel a system must have in order to be truly beneficial to most people.2. What systems are out their that fit our needs and are user friendly.3. Bottom line, if you were purchasing a system and budget was a factor what system would it be and why ? Thanks in advance

I'll get you a detailed reply but it's gonna take a fair amount of time to go over everything and I just don't have the time right now but in a day or 2, I will. It may come in multiple posts over the next couple days though as it's a lot to go over and cover.

[Jking24]

I'll get you a detailed reply but it's gonna take a fair amount of time to go over everything and I just don't have the time right now but in a day or 2, I will. It may come in multiple posts over the next couple days though as it's a lot to go over and cover.

Good deal. Thanks bilet. Feel free to pm me aswell

[Higgy9991]

Following to be informed as well

[billetbirdcage]

First, how much benefit you get out of a system regardless of the amount of sensors you have is gonna boil down to how well you’re willing to take the time to learn reading data. There is no real 100% correct answers like to be fast this senor should be reading this. It’s more like finding trends and tendencies that may lead to you this or that is wrong, just like no set up works for everyone and every track. Basically you’re going to start from scratch on your notebook and slowly learn what’s important and what typical reading will look like and when you see something whether it’s a problem or not.

Second, makes sure your driver can stand the heat, lol. Data will tell you a ton about what your driver is doing and how often he is wrong about what he thinks he is. The system doesn’t lie, but how the data is interpreted is another story.

System basics: Obviously having more sensors and data can be a huge help deciphering the data but the downside is obviously cost as you can spend 10K in load sensors pretty easy. I would for sure get an expandable unit where you can add channels as you feel the need to. A simple 8 channel system is the very very minimum I would start with but would get a 16 channel to start. You’re gonna want 5 channels for shock sensors, 3 for steering, gas, and 2 brake (front rear) so that is already 9 channels. If you want to add in wheel sensors that’s 2 more channels and then any accelerometers that’s typically 2 more channels so now your at 13 channels.

How many sensors? Well having only shock sensors and no driver data like steering, throttle and brake, it’s hard to tell if the car is doing that on its own or if its driver induced when sorting out issues. So the more data you have you can check and see why it’s likely doing something and where the problem is starting at or being masked. So I would say the 5 shock sensors and 3 driver inputs are 100% essential. That would be my bare minimum, the actual data unit generally has GPS to track map as well as RPM, lateral, vertical, horizontal G’s as well as Roll, Pitch, and Yaw, and then Lap times (can break track into sections). This will give you a good start on learning how to read data. You may want wheel sensors for wheel spin and that’s another 2 channels and relatively cheap addition but sensors are prone to get ruined and fail regularly least with the 150.00 dollar ones.

Even if you only use on one car and engine combo and have brackets and what not made for mounting sensors, it will still take most of a day to install the system to go test (assuming you can’t leave the wiring on car) so a wireless system would make that a bunch quicker but at a cost. Also keep in mind, your gonna crash a few shock sensors especially on the RF as there is so little room to install one that it doesn’t get hit with the brake caliper when turned full lock or over extending another one. So they are consumables to a degree and you will for sure mess up one or two before you get the hang of it. Obviously the cheaper ones will bend, fail, come apart easier then the more expensive ones but at first get the cheaper ones until you learn what not to do and replace with better ones once you have a handle on it.

Testing with telemetry: It’s beneficial to have separate data guy that does nothing but look at data and do all the downloading of the files from the car. If you’re the only data guy and are the crew chief or the one making decisions, then having time to download the data and look at it will eat up time during testing. It’s hard to really go over the data a lot while doing the testing and you will generally have to just take a quick glance at something you want to see because you have tons of other things that need to be done, like next changes and etc. The wireless ones make this easier as I can actually watch on my phone live data while the car is making laps instead of waiting for car to return and hook up laptop and download the data and then look at it.

The AIM EVO4S is a decent starter system and expandable and relatively easy to navigate. You can get one from DRP Performance Products, which is already programmed for the basic sensors and labeled. It will cost you a few more bucks then buying just the Aim system but then you have to set up all the sensor parameters, while not super hard but it takes a lot of time and you may need to be computer savvy.

All in all, you will get out of it what you put into it. I know guys that have bought systems and used it once or twice and it sits in the corner because they don’t, or can’t take the time to learn how to use it and its benefits. Also if you don’t test very often and can’t run racing it’s going to be not very useful to you.


That’s it for today, I could write 5 pages on this but sort of hard to cover everything

[billetbirdcage]

I should note you can tie up a lot of time or money in making mounts for sensors, especially if you are doing more then one car. The DRP kit has some universal mounts for things like shock sensors that work pretty well on most cars and corners besides the RF due to clearance issues when turning close to lock. Things like throttle, steering and other sensors it's hard to make universal mounts that will truly fit all cars.

[Jking24]

Thanks billet I have looked into drp.i haven't tried calling them yet but their site is currently experiencing problems in the data logging section. You Mentioned wireless systems. Any particular brand/model

[billetbirdcage]

Thanks billet I have looked into drp.i haven't tried calling them yet but their site is currently experiencing problems in the data logging section. You Mentioned wireless systems. Any particular brand/model

At DRP I'm sure you can talk to about anyone but Cody used to handle the tech part of the evo systems or Lynnie (owner) so might ask for either of those 2 if you want more info. I've had mine for a couple years and I'm sure there is new stuff out. I see they have and evo 5, you might ask them about that and what the difference is.

As far was the wireless system, as far as I know they are really pricey and likely over the cost a beginner is wanting to spend. I have only been around them a few times, but I believe they were a Motec or Racepak system but not 100% as my memory isn't what it used to be. You might talk to Raceday Engineer (think his name is Matt) as he has a wireless system and is around that stuff everyday and could probably point you in the right direction for something along those lines.

If money was no object, I would most likely get a wireless system. It takes too dang long to hook everything up and is a huge mess of wires, lol. When I have time constraints and don't have time to hook everything up, I generally always install the main unit and the GPS to get lap times and keep a record of it. It sure beats hand timing and makes things more accurate. Having wireless stuff would make it easier to get more installed on a last minute test and would save me a day from having to get to the car a day early before the test. However I have a feeling you are looking at twice the cost like least 10K vs 6K but again that's a guess as i haven't researched it in a while.

[Austin34471]

At DRP I'm sure you can talk to about anyone but Cody used to handle the tech part of the evo systems or Lynnie (owner) so might ask for either of those 2 if you want more info. I've had mine for a couple years and I'm sure there is new stuff out. I see they have and evo 5, you might ask them about that and what the difference is.

As far was the wireless system, as far as I know they are really pricey and likely over the cost a beginner is wanting to spend. I have only been around them a few times, but I believe they were a Motec or Racepak system but not 100% as my memory isn't what it used to be. You might talk to Raceday Engineer (think his name is Matt) as he has a wireless system and is around that stuff everyday and could probably point you in the right direction for something along those lines.

If money was no object, I would most likely get a wireless system. It takes too dang long to hook everything up and is a huge mess of wires, lol. When I have time constraints and don't have time to hook everything up, I generally always install the main unit and the GPS to get lap times and keep a record of it. It sure beats hand timing and makes things more accurate. Having wireless stuff would make it easier to get more installed on a last minute test and would save me a day from having to get to the car a day early before the test. However I have a feeling you are looking at twice the cost like least 10K vs 6K but again that's a guess as i haven't researched it in a while.

As far as I know, Neal (raceday engineer) is the only one with any wireless sensors. They are great for learning simple things and are much easier to install, but you can't hook up more than 3-4 sensors so that can be limiting. It just depends what the OP is trying to learn. You can measure just about anything, but until you have actual questions you want answers to, its nothing more than just a bunch of squiggly lines. If you just want to get a "general understanding of how things work" a few hundred dollars in gopros would be probably as helpful as anything

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

As far as I know, Neal (raceday engineer) is the only one with any wireless sensors. They are great for learning simple things and are much easier to install, but you can't hook up more than 3-4 sensors so that can be limiting. It just depends what the OP is trying to learn. You can measure just about anything, but until you have actual questions you want answers to, its nothing more than just a bunch of squiggly lines. If you just want to get a "general understanding of how things work" a few hundred dollars in gopros would be probably as helpful as anything

You hit the nail on the head. Data analytics isn't easy, or for everyone. It's even harder if you don't know what you are looking for or have a real plan in place before you start. It is amazing what can be found with a go pro. I've won a few arguments, that made real gains on the car, that way.

[Lizardracing]

https://www.hptuners.com/product/tra...QaAoLgEALw_wcB

I've used this. It was fun. I learned a couple things. Just a couple though, I don't if it useful or not to pro guy.