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Thread: Tiregate?

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Someone, somewhere, some time, gave the lab criteria for what does or doesn't meet the benchmark. No lab I have ever been involved in, does the testing and sets the pass/fail criteria. Testing has been most of my life.
    You are correct. Hoosier gives the sanctioning bodies a good idea where the benchmarks should kind of be around. I will tell you that the benchmarks that Lucas actually goes with are different then what WRG uses. It's not that Lucas allows more room for doping, they just know that their standards will have way less doubt with the results. If you get caught doping tires in Lucas, there really can be no argument that you didn't try to cheat. With WRG, their benchmarks are so ridiculous, they open themselves up to a plethora of debate.
    If you ain't fast, you're running last!

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbecueboy View Post
    depending on who's cooking the soup.......as much as consistency is always the goal in anything produced for consumer use, it doesn't always happen.....for many reasons.All of this circles back to the folks making the tires.....no hiding from that.So to prevent all this soaking ,tell me again why they can't just make a tire that all of these supposed cheaters want to run consistently? They are the biggest and baddest dirt tire producer on the planet, surely they have scientists that can figure it out?Or do the bookkeepers not want them too?
    Your comment is making me want to circle back. A few years ago, at Eldora, Bloomer, Rigsby, Essex, myself, and a couple racetrack officials were talking and tires came up. Scott started talking about how inconsistent the tires had become but he loved it because he knew he had a blatant advantage over everyone with his ability to save his tires. He joked that drivers were going to start trying to do stuff to their tires again to keep up with him. He said at one point that he had almost 20 samples taken that year alone cause people were so sure he was doping but not one of those tires ever came back dirty. Then came the next year at Eldora and that 5 person tire debacle happened. The common denominator in that situation? All 5 drivers bought their tires from different hoosier reps, but yet the test results came back with all the same wacky results. They were clearly faulty results, and the backdoor deal made behind closed doors solidified that, but I just found it to be very fishy that it happened the next year after all those tire tests he had the previous year.
    If you ain't fast, you're running last!

  3. #43
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    They test the tires against benchmarks that they the manufacturer themselves aren't 100% sure of what all is in them......again, IMO it's where most of the issue is here.

    I like reading about how it's so different as to what's tested for and by whom when it comes to the different series....wasn't aware of that.
    Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

  4. #44
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    Is that the dirty little secret nobody wants to talk about?
    Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagone View Post
    I can 100% tell you that if it doesn't appear as the benchmark then it doesn't meet the benchmark and is called such. There are not "tolerances" set as you guys seem to suggest. It either conforms to the benchmark or it doesn't. They don't say it has 100 ppm of sea salt in it. They say it does not conform to the benchmark provided by the manufacturer. Blue Ridge has been testing racing tires and fuel for many years. Those that question them may not understand how science works or need someone to blame. Blue Ridge is bonded and licensed with over 25 years in the business. They have ZERO reason to screw anyone. The sanctions have ZERO reason to screw anyone. It pisses me off that anyone tries to point it at sanctions. I have a VERY specific process to collect samples. It is akin to a forensic process that maintains a chain of custody. The process for my events is: Tire is marked at scale. Official follows competitor to their hauler. Official instructs crew member which tire to use. Official collects date code and affixes this to the evidence bag along with the compound of the tire and sample name. The official then opens a new glass vial. The official instructs the crew member, using his own grooving iron, to remove a sample from the outer tread block of the tire and then rotate 1/3 of a turn. Then remove a sample from the middle of the tire and rotate another 1/3 of a turn and remove a sample from the inside of the tire. Each sample is placed by the crew member into the open vial that the official is holding as it is removed. Once all samples are in the vial the top is screwed on and then it is sealed with a decal. The vial is then placed inside of the evidence bag and it is sealed. The crew member then signs on the bag along with the official agreeing it is sealed. The team is given a "receipt tab" which is attached to the bag. It has the unique number of the bag on it. When the sample arrives Blue Ridge confirms integrity of the bag and the sample as unopened and intact. Sample is then run. At no point does any official even touch the samples. So I have no idea how anyone can question the integrity of the sample. It is sealed in a tamperproof evidence bag inside a glass vial. It is no secret and I don't mind sharing it. People want transparency but when you give it to them they don't believe it.
    Lets cut to the chase Kelly (no disrespect implied).....What info on these tests are sanctions like yours, are you all provided? Just pass or fail or the components that made it fail?

  6. #46
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    The initial test result is a graph with peaks. The graph reveals characteristics of ingredients at a certain time in spectrum analysis. All chemicals have a specific peak on that graph. The tires are matched against the benchmark sample graph. The more in depth testing can reveal what each individual peak is. The competitor sees the same graphs when they are disqualified. They are told what chemicals have been identified.

    Someone was absolutely accurate in saying that it is not in the best interest of competition to reveal which chemicals are found publicly as that would only serve to help those who are attempting to create the treatment.

    I also want to go on record that I have sent around 80-100 tire samples per year to Blue Ridge over the last 7 years. How many have not met the benchmark? ZERO. Not one. Through 20 or 30 samples from Gateway. 15 or 20 from Arizona. Another 30 from ULTIMATE. 15 or 20 from the various other events I do. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe the competitors have. I don't know.

  7. #47
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    The initial test result is a graph with peaks. The graph reveals characteristics of ingredients at a certain time in spectrum analysis. All chemicals have a specific peak on that graph. The tires are matched against the benchmark sample graph. The more in depth testing can reveal what each individual peak is. The competitor sees the same graphs when they are disqualified. They are told what chemicals have been identified.

    Someone was absolutely accurate in saying that it is not in the best interest of competition to reveal which chemicals are found publicly as that would only serve to help those who are attempting to create the treatment.

    Thanks for being honest and upfront!

    Honestly though, all that info is readily available, not the benchmarks, if you wanna spend a few bucks.

    Most all the research in the past few years, is only putting back in the tires what was there originally. There is quite a big gain if one is willing to put in the time and money!

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