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Thread: Michael Page

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis2902 View Post
    Was he dq'ed from Thursday portion as he was running same motor?
    No but that might've been something they didn't check considering it paid much less on Thursday than Saturday.

    Lots of good insight and info.
    2021 race count
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jking24 View Post
    Not knocking anything Paige has done but just because it's a good crate car doesent mean it can compete with an open motor in it. Most guys in crates get caught up chasing the newer setups and their car couldn't spin a tire with the old stuff so alot of it is all for nothing.
    And I’m sure it’s been totally updated and has all the latest stuff. Not like it’s as is from 10 years ago for sure.
    Up in the air who my next “favorite” driver is. Really losing hope on Bloomer getting anywhere back to “normal”.

  3. #43
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    ^^Page was saying in a DOD article last year that nothing was done to that car. I'm not buying it either. Even in crates. But, what Jking said has some merit as well.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    I've spent 2 full days on the Spintron for the 604, if you want to believe that the 5 or even 10# variance you see in springs makes a difference. . . . shrugs.

    Most people would be shocked to what has an effect and what doesn't
    i guess i am a bit behind the times billet , tell me how you can tell the difference a spring makes on a spintron ? , now i can see a dyno , but i thought a spintron is more for breaking in an engine , not evaluating if 10# of seat pressure makes a difference in the performance of the engine.....

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    i guess i am a bit behind the times billet , tell me how you can tell the difference a spring makes on a spintron ? , now i can see a dyno , but i thought a spintron is more for breaking in an engine , not evaluating if 10# of seat pressure makes a difference in the performance of the engine.....
    Spintron is not for breaking in anything, it's to measure valve train performance and stability. The valves go out of control at 6750 rpm, anything you change shows up on the graph as far as valve bounce, lofting, spring surge and just generally how well it follows the cam profile are different RPM's.

    What I'm saying is those Good/matched/higher pressure stock valve springs that have say 8# more pressure then the others:

    1: once the engine runs at 1200 idle RPM the valve spring has cycled 10 times a second. Do you really think it is still the same 8# higher then the other springs? Take one of those new springs and cycle it 10 times in a vise and retest the spring and tell me if it's not about the same as the other springs or didn't lose a ton of the 8# advantage? (this isn't also getting the spring hot to 200+ degrees)

    2: Pressure isn't the only factor on controlling the valve, sometimes less pressure can be more stable at times if the right things are met. There is a reason Cup engines only have 90/100# of seat pressure and can run 10K RPM, it's not all about pressure.

    3. Now a 604 makes no power at the 6750 RPM anyways, but getting more RPM allows you to run more gear if needed and not destroy the engine or allows you to chip the engine higher. My point is that those match springs or slightly higher poundage you pay a premium for have no real effect on the valve train going nuts and trying to self destruct at 6750.

    4. When you have weak push rods, rocker studs, rockers and etc, adding unneeded spring pressure can just make flex/lofting/surge worse and actually make the valve train go unstable earlier (not always but many times). Many times it makes the valve not follow the cam profile and hurts power.

    Obviously your not allow to change any of those things (only stock parts) but testing that stuff showed what mattered and what didn't. Not giving away any results but just maybe having a shorter install hieght (min allowed) and a weaker spring (low end of the springs ranges) could allow you to stay under the max seat pressure but since the spring is closer to coil bind, it surges less and increases the RPM before it goes nuts (again just a scenario)
    Last edited by billetbirdcage; 01-20-2021 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    Spintron is not for breaking in anything, it's to measure valve train performance and stability. The valves go out of control at 6750 rpm, anything you change shows up on the graph as far as valve bounce, lofting, spring surge and just generally how well it follows the cam profile are different RPM's.

    What I'm saying is those Good/matched/higher pressure stock valve springs that have say 8# more pressure then the others:

    1: once the engine runs at 1200 idle RPM the valve spring has cycled 10 times a second. Do you really think it is still the same 8# higher then the other springs? Take one of those new springs and cycle it 10 times in a vise and retest the spring and tell me if it's not about the same as the other springs or didn't lose a ton of the 8# advantage? (this isn't also getting the spring hot to 200+ degrees)

    2: Pressure isn't the only factor on controlling the valve, sometimes less pressure can be more stable at times if the right things are met. There is a reason Cup engines only have 90/100# of seat pressure and can run 10K RPM, it's not all about pressure.

    3. Now a 604 makes no power at the 6750 RPM anyways, but getting more RPM allows you to run more gear if needed and not destroy the engine or allows you to chip the engine higher. My point is that those match springs or slightly higher poundage you pay a premium for have no real effect on the valve train going nuts and trying to self destruct at 6750.

    4. When you have weak push rods, rocker studs, rockers and etc, adding unneeded spring pressure can just make flex/lofting/surge worse and actually make the valve train go unstable earlier (not always but many times). Many times it makes the valve not follow the cam profile and hurts power.

    Obviously your not allow to change any of those things (only stock parts) but testing that stuff showed what mattered and what didn't. Not giving away any results but just maybe having a shorter install hieght (min allowed) and a weaker spring (low end of the springs ranges) could allow you to stay under the max seat pressure but since the spring is closer to coil bind, it surges less and increases the RPM before it goes nuts (again just a scenario)

    How many thousandths would you be able to say the engine builder mis-read the gauge or made a simple mistake instead of an all out attempt to cheat?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    How many thousandths would you be able to say the engine builder mis-read the gauge or made a simple mistake instead of an all out attempt to cheat?
    The rules say .020" so i would say anything more than that would be blatant cheating

  8. #48

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    I just want to say something here. Michael is one of my closest friends. He and I have raced out of the same shop for years. The hate this guy gets is ridiculous. Anyone that knows him knows he will help anyone with anything. Yes he races hard and sometimes a little aggressive and I have been on the receiving end of it too but he races to feed his family. It’s not a hobby for him. On yo the car. I was a partner in the car he raced last weekend. The car is of fact 11 years old. If most people looked at the car close they wouldn’t even race it. It’s rough, the frame has been patched up in a few places. We have pulled it back “straight” with a bob cat etc. it just works. It works because we do our own thing and the driver knows what he wants out of the car. Now for the engine. The engine was just freshened by a local engine builder. We didn’t touch it when we got it back. We didn’t shim any springs as a matter of fact the first time we took a valve cover off was Thursday night because it was leaking. Mistakes get made and that was a costly one but no one was cheating. .010 installed height discrepancy didn’t win that race.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    Spintron is not for breaking in anything, it's to measure valve train performance and stability. The valves go out of control at 6750 rpm, anything you change shows up on the graph as far as valve bounce, lofting, spring surge and just generally how well it follows the cam profile are different RPM's.

    What I'm saying is those Good/matched/higher pressure stock valve springs that have say 8# more pressure then the others:

    1: once the engine runs at 1200 idle RPM the valve spring has cycled 10 times a second. Do you really think it is still the same 8# higher then the other springs? Take one of those new springs and cycle it 10 times in a vise and retest the spring and tell me if it's not about the same as the other springs or didn't lose a ton of the 8# advantage? (this isn't also getting the spring hot to 200+ degrees)

    2: Pressure isn't the only factor on controlling the valve, sometimes less pressure can be more stable at times if the right things are met. There is a reason Cup engines only have 90/100# of seat pressure and can run 10K RPM, it's not all about pressure.

    3. Now a 604 makes no power at the 6750 RPM anyways, but getting more RPM allows you to run more gear if needed and not destroy the engine or allows you to chip the engine higher. My point is that those match springs or slightly higher poundage you pay a premium for have no real effect on the valve train going nuts and trying to self destruct at 6750.

    4. When you have weak push rods, rocker studs, rockers and etc, adding unneeded spring pressure can just make flex/lofting/surge worse and actually make the valve train go unstable earlier (not always but many times). Many times it makes the valve not follow the cam profile and hurts power.

    Obviously your not allow to change any of those things (only stock parts) but testing that stuff showed what mattered and what didn't. Not giving away any results but just maybe having a shorter install hieght (min allowed) and a weaker spring (low end of the springs ranges) could allow you to stay under the max seat pressure but since the spring is closer to coil bind, it surges less and increases the RPM before it goes nuts (again just a scenario)
    i remember reading an article a few years back about Bob Fox using it to test push rods and such in the 90,s i kept all those mags and found it , it says he along with hendrick developed it , which is not necessarily true , the manufacturers were and are still using a simular device to eliminate the break in period , may not be called a " spintron" though , any way , #1 , i have checked springs that were all perfect when installed and ran 200 laps and were still dead on , so i cant believe 10 times compressed in a vice will change any thing , but i have been wrong before and would have to see this to believe it...#2 , the use of extremely light valves to me would be the only way to achieve this , #3 , no offence brad , but i have to agree with this , #4 , i think the valve train of a 604 is plenty strong enough to handle more spring pressure , i say this because i have built 3 604s for other than crate rules and increased the spring rate by 20 lbs with all stock valve train and turned 7200 with no problems , maybe i was just lucky , IDK , I am not here to contradict all your saying , i respect your opinion and have learned a lot from you , but i have experience and an opinion as well , thats all ......

  10. #50
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    warriorracing , i have talked to michael , and probably you several times and i agree with your above post , no one is perfect on a race track but you guy,s are fine by me......

  11. #51
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    Warrior racer. Thanks for commenting. If you don't mind would you share exactly what and how it was found to be deemed "illegal"

  12. #52
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    Default Page haters

    He has more fans than haters.....I r one.

    I like what he does and what he does it with.
    Last edited by Barbecueboy; 01-21-2021 at 01:00 PM.
    Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

  13. #53
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    Good post warrior racer.......most of us realize that mistake didnt win him the race! He obviously knows how to make a car work for him.........some of them sliders, though!

  14. #54
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    May 2007
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbecueboy View Post
    He has more fans than haters.....I r one.

    I like what he does and what he does it with.
    I think he’s very talented, and I used to like him, but he is very similar to Madden. Don’t do anything that is close to aggressive driving or I’ll throw a hissy and probably punt you. But I can do it and it’s ok.
    Up in the air who my next “favorite” driver is. Really losing hope on Bloomer getting anywhere back to “normal”.

  15. #55
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    I've never met page or talked to him , but I like them both.
    Where is the move over flag when you need it?????

  16. #56
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    Apr 2011
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    Count my wife and I as fans too. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again ... we’ve watched Michael race in person many times and have seen him win a lot of races. Not once have we seen him do anything dirty. Yes, I’ve heard of a couple incidents — the same kind of stuff every driver has had. The hate he gets is indeed ridiculous. But it’s mostly from locals whose ass he beats regularly, and people who have probably never even seen him race in person.

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