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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    680

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    Yes he finished the race with the bent shaft (bent down near the rod end) and yes the car would continue to climb the bars...like I said in the original post, if he is on a tacky track the car will hike once it hits traction but will not otherwise & will not leaving the pits, & not at all in the slick.

    We are on a chain and we went ahead and checked the motion on it as well.

    I can easily lift the LR of the car from ride height to near full travel by picking up on the bumper & I can easily push the nose down on the RF to full travel. But own its own the car cannot lift in the LR. We feel like something is binding once there is a load applied to it.

  2. #22

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    Rod ends can sometimes rotate free with no load and then bind up with load. If you have a smash machine, put a 4 link rod in and compress to 1500lbs and make sure you can still turn the rod ends by hand.

    I'd pull the driveshaft out and make sure the ballspline or slip yoke can move into the transmission with little resistance.

    Double check the bearings on the LR shocks.

    Ensure the sliders on the LR shock behind aren't binding or catching on the shock body - can look fine on a machine when the shock is straight up and down but when installed can bind from the shock angle.

    The static LR load number looks low in my opinion. Raising that up to 600lbs or so should make the LR want to extend easier from ride height, depending on how the stack is setup.. A common LR load at static height would be in the 600-700lb range. I like your extended load range.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,363

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    I would definitely look into the drive shaft situation as mentioned. Also you say you have a "triple stack" is it a two spring stack with a take up spring or a true three spring setup. If it is does it have multiple lock outs and are you sure the stack is still operating as it originally was.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    A true triple stack (3 separate springs). It has been checked and nothing seems wrong there. Took all 4 4 link rods off and replaced, took 5th coil shock off and replaced & ran torque arm thru the motions and nothing. Going back at it tonight. Pulled axles out to make sure that they come out easy.

    Nearly ruled everything out other than brake fluid and lower radiator hose!!!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    thedirtysouth
    Posts
    4,005

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    Quote Originally Posted by missile07 View Post
    Yes he finished the race with the bent shaft (bent down near the rod end) and yes the car would continue to climb the bars...like I said in the original post, if he is on a tacky track the car will hike once it hits traction but will not otherwise & will not leaving the pits, & not at all in the slick.

    We are on a chain and we went ahead and checked the motion on it as well.

    I can easily lift the LR of the car from ride height to near full travel by picking up on the bumper & I can easily push the nose down on the RF to full travel. But own its own the car cannot lift in the LR. We feel like something is binding once there is a load applied to it.
    this rules out a lot of thoughts wreck related , now like has been mentioned , if a moving part got damaged , then it might have still worked for the rest of that race and seized up later , IE: a damaged rod end or bird cage bearing could cause this....JMO...

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    I have had several people private message me and I am very open to any and every option of trying stuff. Several have asked about checking birdcages, rod ends, j-bar, torque arm while it has a load on them? Other than just replacing with new parts how would I go about applying a load and checking these parts?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    488

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    I go back to it works fine with one shock and not the other. Why wouldn't that stuff be binding on the Integra? That in itself removes a bind from being possible. Imo

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    The day I put the Integra on at the track it had a 125 single spring on it. I smashed it to our extended load number and stuck it on and didn't change anything else. This had the static ride height alot higher than normal, but I didn't have other springs to change it or make a stack. It had the car really really jacked up on the LR corner, so much that the driver had to use a tire to stand on to get in the car....last night we stuck a double stack spring (66 lbs) on the integra and got the extended load correct and static load close. It would not lift it.

    With the spring rate being higher(125) and the static ride height already being higher with the combo on at the track, have the car high enough that it was easier to transfer that weight or is the static ride height high enough that it could possibly be past a bind in the suspension?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    228

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    Need to actually pull the birdcages off the rear end and feel the bearings by hand. Rocking them back and forth while still installed will lie to you. I found this out the hard way. The race will spin on the tube when there's no weight on it. Also you can put 4 link rods, j bar, etc in your spring smasher. Load to say 600 pounds and see if they move freely. May need to fabricate adaptors

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    13,615

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    Quote Originally Posted by missile07 View Post
    The day I put the Integra on at the track it had a 125 single spring on it. I smashed it to our extended load number and stuck it on and didn't change anything else. This had the static ride height alot higher than normal, but I didn't have other springs to change it or make a stack. It had the car really really jacked up on the LR corner, so much that the driver had to use a tire to stand on to get in the car....last night we stuck a double stack spring (66 lbs) on the integra and got the extended load correct and static load close. It would not lift it.

    With the spring rate being higher(125) and the static ride height already being higher with the combo on at the track, have the car high enough that it was easier to transfer that weight or is the static ride height high enough that it could possibly be past a bind in the suspension?
    You could very well just be getting the trust angle too low as the ride height sags.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    680

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    How low would be too low? General static starting points?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    It should be the same as before at our static ride height. No bars have been changed.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
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    13,615

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    Quote Originally Posted by missile07 View Post
    It should be the same as before at our static ride height. No bars have been changed.
    All this talk about stop nuts and no stop nuts make me think something is different. With that low ride load, I think this thing would sag until you bottom a shock or something.

    Min bar angle gonna depends on a lot of variables. I'm not as extreme as you on soft spring rate and have more ride load. I still have to sit on a bumpstop to get consistent static ride height.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 02-04-2021 at 04:16 PM.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    The shock builder and chassis builder suggested that we try a locknut with that specific shock and spring combo. Originally we didn't have it on before we had any issues. After the shock got bent and we started having issues we decided to try it. So we have tried it with and without the lock out nut. Reset the static ride heights both ways as well.

    We swapped j-bar and driveshaft last night. Re-smashed all the shocks. The only suspension pieces we have not changed currently is the LF upper, lower and spindle. We have all the stuff to do it and plan on trying Saturday.

    Looking at the static ride height while sitting on the ground. With a bent 15 inch LR lower bar there is only an inch of height difference between where the bar is mounted on the birdcage and where the bar is mounted on the frame. These are both our standard holes and we do not and have not changed them.

    I cant get the pic to upload but when we have it currently at ride height there is roughly 1.75 to 2 inches of shock shaft showing on the LR.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    13,615

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    Quote Originally Posted by missile07 View Post
    The shock builder and chassis builder suggested that we try a locknut with that specific shock and spring combo. Originally we didn't have it on before we had any issues. After the shock got bent and we started having issues we decided to try it. So we have tried it with and without the lock out nut. Reset the static ride heights both ways as well.

    We swapped j-bar and driveshaft last night. Re-smashed all the shocks. The only suspension pieces we have not changed currently is the LF upper, lower and spindle. We have all the stuff to do it and plan on trying Saturday.

    Looking at the static ride height while sitting on the ground. With a bent 15 inch LR lower bar there is only an inch of height difference between where the bar is mounted on the birdcage and where the bar is mounted on the frame. These are both our standard holes and we do not and have not changed them.

    I cant get the pic to upload but when we have it currently at ride height there is roughly 1.75 to 2 inches of shock shaft showing on the LR.
    My car can lose 1" of shock shaft from the driver leaning over in the seat.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    680

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    With the driver in the car it will go down .5" consistently. I questioned it when we got the car but the chassis builder says its right. Another local with the same chassis does the same.

  17. #37

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    I agree with Master , If you are smashing 420 @ 20 inch , which is probably static ride height , you had to be on a Bump stop or the car would drop another 3 inch based on 60 lb. per inch load. If you sent your bent spring assy. for repair , the bump stop could have easily been misplaced. With chassis LR extra down travel , the trust angle is ugly. On a bad fast heavy track might be OK. but on a slower slick track ?? .

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    399

    Cool

    Gotta wonder if you bent the shock shaft how a lateral load got applied to it ?? Was the rod bushing replaced also?? Check shock for excessive lateral movement! What else was involved in being able to apply that lateral loading?? Top out or bottom out? Look for binds in heims...on the shock?? Start moving parts with car on ground weight load on moving parts. HTH
    Last edited by CCHIEF; 02-05-2021 at 08:39 AM.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,363

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    I'm a little confused about the lock out and no luck out situation aswell. Their had to be a bump stop or somthing else to maintain ride hieght on such a soft setup with no collar. Was this a coil bind setup. It's very possible the springs got damaged when the shock got bent. And are no longer functioning correctly through travel. Back to your original statement if static ride hieght is now different. Somthing on the car is not what it previously was

  20. #40
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,935

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    Did you happen to check the LRL bar since you got hit in the LR? Assuming you have a pre-bent one on the car, so check and make sure the bar didn't shorten a bunch (IE supposed to be 15" and now 14")

    Also check the J-bar and make sure it didn't shorten as well

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