LS style super late motors

[Basecircle]

Anyone have any real world experience yet with them? Run them, or seen them run competitively against the $50k typical motors? I’ve seen plenty of impressive builds, and incredible numbers for substantially lower prices but haven’t see who is running them or how they stack up on the track compared to on a dyno. Not looking for ct525 info, I’m talking built 850+hp stuff. Just having some motor conversations about the future, and realized I never see much about these engines beyond articles about the build and dyno numbers.

[Jking24]

Theirs quite a few out their and they're gaining steam. A couple of the builders advertise big big numbers but they don't race well. Such as the one bloomquist had. I think mullins has the best program right now for them I think he advertises 860hp. Rusty schlenk has one, babb has run them, peirce won at Florence last year with one. I don't know if any on tour but regionally their gaining plenty of steam especially in the mod world

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Theirs quite a few out their and they're gaining steam. A couple of the builders advertise big big numbers but they don't race well. Such as the one bloomquist had. I think mullins has the best program right now for them I think he advertises 860hp. Rusty schlenk has one, babb has run them, peirce won at Florence last year with one. I don't know if any on tour but regionally their gaining plenty of steam especially in the mod world

I thought Scott talked positive about the one he ran?

[Jking24]

He said it surprised him and I'm not saying it ran bad but with the numbers that guy advertises it should sit on the pole of the first heat race at every show it goes to. Also Scott's previous experience with ls based engines was pretty bad. But if you watch that race madden clearly had more straight away speed at all times you could see madden roll out of the fuel at the end of the straight to keep from hitting Scott before he passed him even the laps that madden had a bad previous corner from a failed pass attempt he would still make up multiple car lengths at the end of the straight. Just my observation. Their are also a few of them in my area and when they didn't set the world on fire and ended up on a local dyno. Their were problems finding the other 200hp the guy thought he bought

[fastford]

we have not built one for circle track yet , but we did a street/drag 419 ls a while back that made 750 on pump gas with cathedral heads, it was injected though , texas speed is doing some work on a circle track cam right now and some other things like intake work , I think with the right cam , intake and square port heads on E85 , they could be very competitive , BTW , from what i have seen , there cam profile is very similar to a ford cam we run .......JMO...

[billetbirdcage]

I'm gonna play devils advocate here:

My problem with the whole LS argument is cost: So people are saying you can build one way way cheaper, How does that work? I mean at the power level you need for a national touring series, you still need parts that will last in a 900HP engine that has extreme RPM abilities. I just don't see how an LS is gonna be cheaper, I mean at that point the crank, rods, heads, valves are all top of the line and many cases custom made pieces and that means cost no matter the brand or style of engine. I mean a custom billet crank costs basically the same for any engine at that point. Now I understand the popularity of LS stuff may reduce the cost on a few parts somewhat due to mass production but I don't see a 15 to 20K savings to be able to for sell at 30K and the same durability of a typical super engine. Unless these things end up using a ton of off the shelf stuff, I just don't see that much cost savings.

Now on the flip side, for the average racer running supers on a regional or local level at slower tracks or smaller shows sure it makes sense to be able to build a more 800HP engine with more off the shelf parts and could see some savings for sure as not all places require 750+ HP

[Jking24]

I'm gonna play devils advocate here:My problem with the whole LS argument is cost: So people are saying you can build one way way cheaper, How does that work? I mean at the power level you need for a national touring series, you still need parts that will last in a 900HP engine that has extreme RPM abilities. I just don't see how an LS is gonna be cheaper, I mean at that point the crank, rods, heads, valves are all top of the line and many cases custom made pieces and that means cost no matter the brand or style of engine. I mean a custom billet crank costs basically the same for any engine at that point. Now I understand the popularity of LS stuff may reduce the cost on a few parts somewhat due to mass production but I don't see a 15 to 20K savings to be able to for sell at 30K and the same durability of a typical super engine. Unless these things end up using a ton of off the shelf stuff, I just don't see that much cost savings.Now on the flip side, for the average racer running supers on a regional or local level at slower tracks or smaller shows sure it makes sense to be able to build a more 800HP engine with more off the shelf parts and could see some savings for sure as not all places require 750+ HP

I agree and the combo bloomquist ran has already went up 10k since I was quoted a year and a half ago. One thing that is a pretty big cost savings for them is the block. They can use a cast next gen dart block which is in the neighborhood of 3k vs the billet stuff that cost 10-12k. Mullins advertises his combo as for the weekly and regional racer he says he is developing a combo for the national and crown jewel level. It will be interesting to see where that price point lands his current combo is 28-29k

[billetbirdcage]

I agree and the combo bloomquist ran has already went up 10k since I was quoted a year and a half ago. One thing that is a pretty big cost savings for them is the block. They can use a cast next gen dart block which is in the neighborhood of 3k vs the billet stuff that cost 10-12k. Mullins advertises his combo as for the weekly and regional racer he says he is developing a combo for the national and crown jewel level. It will be interesting to see where that price point lands his current combo is 28-29k

I hadn't really researched it, but I was wondering what block they was using just never took the time to look or price any of it. However that aluminum LS next block is 5423.00 on summit. Which a 4.5 bore spacing aluminum dart is 6366.00. So I'm gonna assume they using an iron block because it's close the 3K you said in steel, but so is an non LS iron block

I guess they could be using a stock aluminum re sleeved block for about that 3K mark

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

He said it surprised him and I'm not saying it ran bad but with the numbers that guy advertises it should sit on the pole of the first heat race at every show it goes to. Also Scott's previous experience with ls based engines was pretty bad. But if you watch that race madden clearly had more straight away speed at all times you could see madden roll out of the fuel at the end of the straight to keep from hitting Scott before he passed him even the laps that madden had a bad previous corner from a failed pass attempt he would still make up multiple car lengths at the end of the straight. Just my observation. Their are also a few of them in my area and when they didn't set the world on fire and ended up on a local dyno. Their were problems finding the other 200hp the guy thought he bought

Dyno numbers don't win races. Are we sure scott wasn't short on corner speed?

[CCHIEF]

Reliability...and rebuildability. IIRC, production blocks can't accommodate a dizzy?? The big players build them because there is a market for them, but your $ is best spent on a D3 variant it seems anymore.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Reliability...and rebuildability. IIRC, production blocks can't accommodate a dizzy?? The big players build them because there is a market for them, but your $ is best spent on a D3 variant it seems anymore.

You can add a distributor housing to the front. The ideas about what engine you need are almost completely arrived at because of the car the engine was bolted in.

[Jking24]

Dyno numbers don't win races. Are we sure scott wasn't short on corner speed?

That's exactly what I'm saying mastirs Scott was short on speed everywhere that day compared to madden. But as I stated above even if madden had to pinch his corner off killing his corner speed and losing ground on Scott he would still catch Scott down the straightaway. Witch means his motor ran better than scotts.

[fastford]

a 419 ls bottom end can be built cheaper than any thing mainly because of the block , the 6 bolt main 6.2 block , which can be acquired fairly cheap , is extremely strong strait from GM , cranks , rods and pistons are no higher than any other , your gone pay for a good head no matter what you run , the engine i spoke of above had 10K in the long block and cold easily break into the 800hp range with a bit more compression and better fuel , I am a ford man but IMO , this is the future for chevy folks on a budget especially ......

[JCSullivan00]

fastford said what I was going to say. There's a lot of savings in the block itself. There are guys running 1200hp on the street/strip with completely stock blocks. Heck, there are guys putting chinese twin turbo setups on completely stock ls engines, with just the rings opened up a little bit, and making 1000hp, and not doing any damage to them.

[Lizardracing]

Bloomquist was using a Baldwin Engine. They are in my neighborhood and one of the leaders in developing the LS style platform.
Bloomquist likely has all kinds of offers all the time and if he didn't think it had the ability, (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) sure of the ability actually, to perform at that level, I'd guess he wouldn't have entertained the idea.
I have family running LS Baldwin engines running local and regional shows and a few national shows and Ballwin and the engines have been great for them.

In my experience with street rods and other high performance street machines the LS is attractive because of the base configuration is pretty good. Stiffer block that better designed in general, roller cam, better designed roller rocker/trunnion, plentiful, easy to tune and responsive to changes and physically fits where the 50 year blocks will.
Cheaper? Not really, you can make a bit more power with them in stockish form, especially power adders like Nos or a turbo with more reliability than 50 year blocks. They are still a bomb, you just have a little longer fuse with them.

Once you get into the throws of professional racing, especially for a living where winning and eating go hand in hand at the top levels like LOLMS and Woo, I can't fathom the parts required to make that level of power, at that level of RPM for that long is any less expensive. At least not substantially so.
$5-$10g probably isn't that big of deal to the the top level guys but that isn't true for the local and regional guys.
So what I'm saying is the closer you get to the top, I think, the pricing converges between LS and Non LS stuff.
For the High performance street stuff the LS is a good thing.

[Kromulous]

Are a lot of Touring teams running the new Chevy stuff like the R07 etc?

The Ford camp seems to be selling a lot of the RY stuff, and running some D3 based stuff.

My question would be, is the LS platform that much better of a design? We looked into the Mullins stuff and its pricey but the power for Mod is great, and you dont have to run it hard. Its about 4k more. So i guess is it worth it?

They RY stuff was a real leap FWD for Ford, as for design, but not sure why i see a lot for sale.

[crownman25]

heres my theory I know some guys that ran the 525 they would fly for a while and slow down after races I always thought that because it had the crank trigger at rear of engine that the crank would twist like a axle does after a few races and the time would be off,just a theory...

[fastford]

probably thought they needed more gear to run with the more powerful engines and when the tracked slicked up , they slowed down...jmo...

[Jim11h]

Colin Shipley, schlenks teenage step son is running one. He has looked good when seen. Heck he lead half the feature other week at Attica. Track was slick but motor looked drivable. I think 800 drivable hp gonna be faster than anyone with 950hp erratic power. Let's face it, touring guys don't need the big hp either except the occasional bristol big fast tracks or a heavy fast joint.