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  1. #1
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    Default Engine Placement

    Whats the benefit of moving your motor to the left? I have a buddy that recommends it to everyone and says he wishes he could move his even further to the left. Is it strictly for percentage reasons or does it aid in handling and weight transfer? I'm guessing this would work better for an all aluminum motor because a steel block/full motor would have a difficult time transfering weight off of the left front.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I treat it as weight, need more or less left % move it left/right

  3. #3
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    Default

    So strictly a large ballast? No benefits other than gaining or losing lt side percentage? What about mentally.....like a placebo? lol

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuckleberryB4 View Post
    So strictly a large ballast? No benefits other than gaining or losing lt side percentage? What about mentally.....like a placebo? lol

    It about COG location in X,Y, and Z (Left/Right, Front/Back, and Up/Down)

    Think of a empty tall refrigerator:

    Put 200# at the top left vs low way right, which one is gonna tip over easier when you push left to right?

    Placebo can be just as important as any other adjustment, driver confidence is everything especially the first couple laps

  5. #5
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    Default

    I should also say that my example was meant to be dealing with actual COG. You could use several small pieces of lead and do the same thing but I was referring to the actual total COG. Meaning just cause you have several pieces inside the refrigerator it's the COG location that matters.

    Moving the motor is just one piece (although a large amount) of weight that sets the COG location

  6. #6
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    Aug 2018
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    Default

    We've got a "guru" in our area that believes in setting the engine and fuel cell right on the cog (left -right).

    Thoughts?

  7. #7
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    Nov 2007
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    Default

    Those are 2 of the 3 largest influences on l-r CG placement. Driver, being the other. Does not leave many other sources of weight if needing to balance out of position pieces.

    I can see some difficulties in getting those directly on CG, but nice to work towards that.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 95shaw View Post
    Those are 2 of the 3 largest influences on l-r CG placement. Driver, being the other. Does not leave many other sources of weight if needing to balance out of position pieces.

    I can see some difficulties in getting those directly on CG, but nice to work towards that.
    I'm a fan of fuel load not affecting rr/lr load split.
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 ........ Eldora -4
    East Bay - 6
    Florence -1
    Atomic -4
    Tazewell -1
    Moler -1
    Portsmouth -1

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    I'm a fan of fuel load not affecting rr/lr load split.
    Yep, plenty of room for development in the fuel cell area!

    Has anyone strung a current late model to see where the engine is mounted in relation to the chassis centerline?

  10. #10
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    Default

    The driver mass is the largest mass variable in super latemodel racing from car to car. Most of our other components are similar in size/shape/weight. Your setup numbers will need to be different if your driver is not the exact size as the house car driver.

    You will need to move your engine 3" side to side from a light driver to a heavy driver. No cars are designed for that kind of change.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghopper View Post
    The driver mass is the largest mass variable in super latemodel racing from car to car. Most of our other components are similar in size/shape/weight. Your setup numbers will need to be different if your driver is not the exact size as the house car driver.

    You will need to move your engine 3" side to side from a light driver to a heavy driver. No cars are designed for that kind of change.
    We used to have 40 to 50# batteries we could move. . . . That's gone by the waste side, with the stiffer heavier frames and added safety stuff (20# door plates, 15# fire systems, and heavy suspension parts in some places).

    I personally would like them to raise the minimum weight some, so we didn't have the need/want for things like: carbon fiber seats, $1000.00 8# batteries, and etc. But there are tons of things that need attention at the same time as far as cutting cost (if that's even a possible thing)
    Last edited by billetbirdcage; 03-25-2021 at 04:26 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    We used to have 40 to 50# batteries we could move. . . . That's gone by the waste side, with the stiffer heavier frames and added safety stuff (20# door plates, 15# fire systems, and heavy suspension parts in some places).

    I personally would like them to raise the minimum weight some, so we didn't have the need/want for things like: carbon fiber seats, $1000.00 8# batteries, and etc. But there are tons of things that need attention at the same time as far as cutting cost (if that's even a possible thing)
    Go Lithium hasn't sent me a battery yet. Mine is still heavy.
    Droop isn't the problem.

    Arizona Speedway - 2 ........ Brushcreek -1
    Alltech -1 ........ Eldora -4
    East Bay - 6
    Florence -1
    Atomic -4
    Tazewell -1
    Moler -1
    Portsmouth -1

  13. #13
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    Oct 2017
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Go Lithium hasn't sent me a battery yet. Mine is still heavy.
    Did you make sure they gave your address right ? 😉

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Go Lithium hasn't sent me a battery yet. Mine is still heavy.
    You probly gave them the wrong zip code for your credit card......by accident......correct?

  15. #15
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    Wisconsin
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    Default

    I look at it a little differently. It is just a weight mass that needs to transfer, but I look at it like on an arc. If the motor is left of the theoretical roll center it will have to travel in an arc over the top of the roll center before it begins traveling downhill to the right.

    I say theoretical roll center because I believe the true roll center is the combination of the elastic roll center and the kinematic roll center.

    I saw a couple of years ago, that pretty fast 6 car at Volusia had his motor so far right, the valve cover was almost touching the RF upper frame rail.

    I don't know how far right the roll center was, but I think it made it easier to get on the RF and stay there instead of sticking a ton of rebound in the RF to keep it there.

    Rebound takes traction out of the tire. Anytime you can take rebound out of the RF yet keep the car there, the more traction that right front tire will have.

    Just doing a little thinking as I type.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ltemodel View Post
    I look at it a little differently. It is just a weight mass that needs to transfer, but I look at it like on an arc. If the motor is left of the theoretical roll center it will have to travel in an arc over the top of the roll center before it begins traveling downhill to the right.


    That's fine if the engine was the entire COG, but it isn't. Would it really matter between these 2?

    1. Engine left 4" and 20# on right frame rail to make COG on centerline of car
    2. Engine right 4" and 20# on left frame rail to make COG on centerline of car (say this is exactly the same COG as #1)

    Is there really a difference? It's the COG that matters not the location of one item that makes up the total COG. If you had said COG instead of engine I would agree.
    Last edited by billetbirdcage; 03-31-2021 at 07:58 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    That's fine if the engine was the entire COG, but it isn't. Would it really matter between these 2?

    1. Engine left 4" and 20# on right frame rail to make COG on centerline of car
    2. Engine right 4" and 20# on left frame rail to make COG on centerline of car (say this is exactly the same COG as #1)

    Is there really a difference? It's the COG that matters not the location of one item that makes up the total COG. If you had said COG instead of engine I would agree.
    If you dropped a plumb bob off each lower balljoint and found the centerline, would the centerline of the engine line up with that mark? Or does each chassis brand have their own preferred mounting position?

  18. #18
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    Default

    Yea Billet, I think you are right. It is more about COG. I guess I never thought about someone balancing a right motor shift with left hanging lead. Good call!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    That's fine if the engine was the entire COG, but it isn't. Would it really matter between these 2?

    1. Engine left 4" and 20# on right frame rail to make COG on centerline of car
    2. Engine right 4" and 20# on left frame rail to make COG on centerline of car (say this is exactly the same COG as #1)

    Is there really a difference? It's the COG that matters not the location of one item that makes up the total COG. If you had said COG instead of engine I would agree.
    This is above all of our pay grades other than maybe Ghopper, but I wonder if moving the torque axis centerline that far would have any noticeable effect?

  20. #20
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    May 2008
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    Iowa/Oregon
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    Default

    The further left the engine, the more angle introduced in the driveshaft alignment at full droop. Getting idealistic in here!

    The CG moves about 0.500 left for each 1 of engine movement. You can figure that percent with a ~72 track width. The heavy driver can move it about 1.5 left vs a lighter driver.

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