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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Macon GA
    Posts
    192

    Default MSD box 6AL vs 7AL

    I see a lot of the super guys are running the gold box (7AL)….. I’ve always just run the trusty red 6AL and have never had an issue. What advantage is there to running the 7AL other than getting to lighten your pocket book a little more?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,458

    Default

    Programmable timing curve. That's why WoO outlawed them.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -3
    Moler - 1
    Portsmouth -1
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Programmable timing curve. That's why WoO outlawed them.
    I could be wrong, but I don't think all the 7's have that just like all the 6's don't either.

    The main reason (IMO) is increased spark and reliability over the 6.

    One of the things is you could get slew rate on the 7's (have been able to for 20 years plus) which is basically a limit to how fast the engine can gain rpm. It's sort of like a traction control like how the Davis unit works as it only allows the engine to increase RPM to a certain set rate. Say like 600 RPM per second and if it goes over that it misfires to slow the RPM increase rate. I'm not sure it's ever been all that effect for circle track stuff but it's been available for ever just hardly anyone knew about it until about 7 or 8 years ago.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    I could be wrong, but I don't think all the 7's have that just like all the 6's don't either.

    The main reason (IMO) is increased spark and reliability over the 6.

    One of the things is you could get slew rate on the 7's (have been able to for 20 years plus) which is basically a limit to how fast the engine can gain rpm. It's sort of like a traction control like how the Davis unit works as it only allows the engine to increase RPM to a certain set rate. Say like 600 RPM per second and if it goes over that it misfires to slow the RPM increase rate. I'm not sure it's ever been all that effect for circle track stuff but it's been available for ever just hardly anyone knew about it until about 7 or 8 years ago.
    I thought all the gold ones did. I could be wrong.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -3
    Moler - 1
    Portsmouth -1
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    733

    Default

    While we're on the boxes what about the 6CT? Any advantages if you don't run a locked out distributor? The RPM display would be pretty useless if the rules require them to mounted out of reach of the driver and it's buried under the cowl.

    The boy just bought one for one of our cars against my judgement and it seems to me all we're doing is making MSD another $150. He's half my age and a lot more techy than his old man who is still of the K.I.S.S school. He thinks I'd still run a dual point but that's not quite true.
    Last edited by over4T; 01-16-2022 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by over4T View Post
    While we're on the boxes what about the 6CT? Any advantages if you don't run a locked out distributor? The RPM display would be pretty useless if the rules require them to mounted out of reach of the driver and it's buried under the cowl.

    The boy just bought one for one of our cars against my judgement and it seems to me all we're doing is making MSD another $150. He's half my age and a lot more techy than his old man who is still of the K.I.S.S school. He thinks I'd still run a dual point but that's not quite true.
    I think mostly what your paying for is the better/smoother RPM limit or when your on the chip. If you not running on the chip a bunch like a crate car can, then I don't see a ton of advantage to it besides the smoother RPM limit, start retard, and RPM recall.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    733

    Default

    bbc, Thanks. Always appreciate your input on tech stuff. My homebuilt engines certainly aren't crates and it's rare when we're banging on the chip.

    I'll see how the 6CT works before condemning it and giving the boy another I told you so. I haven't lasted over 60 years in this sport by blowing money on unneeded gadgets.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by over4T View Post
    bbc, Thanks. Always appreciate your input on tech stuff. My homebuilt engines certainly aren't crates and it's rare when we're banging on the chip.

    I'll see how the 6CT works before condemning it and giving the boy another I told you so. I haven't lasted over 60 years in this sport by blowing money on unneeded gadgets.
    Depending how old your 6 box is (especially analog vs digital) you could/will see/hear a big difference in the Rev limiter. The old ones sounded like the cut the ignition for 1/2 a second at a time and was very noticeable when you hit the chip, the newer ones it can be hard to hear it on the chip from the infield and is no way as noticeable when your on the chip as the old boxes.

    Next thing you might check is Retard creep, especially if you had an analog box before. Digital ones can retard about 1 degree per 1000/2000 RPM. So if you are locked and set timing at say 34 degrees with your old analog box, the new box may only get to 31 or so due to electronic retard (I forget what it's called but they tend to do that).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    I thought all the gold ones did. I could be wrong.
    Per the new rules

    A. The following ignition boxes will not be permitted for use:
    1. MSD Red 6 Box – Part Number: 6530
    2. MSD Black 6 Box – Part Number: 65303
    3. MSD Gold 7 Box – Part Number: 7531
    4. Fast Ignition – Part Number: 307222

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    28

    Default

    The car I bought had a 6CT in it. After a few races I had a no start issue. Put an old 6al on and have been running it since. Tried to send off the 6CT to be rebuilt and was told they are not rebuildable. Wont have another.

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