The droop rule disaster

[Rajflyboy]

Whatever it is I’d say things are really dam good right now in dirt late model. I would not change much.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How about taking a 2” hole saw to the noses of these cars or going back to the “older style” fronts that weren’t so aero dependent? And raising them back up from where they are now. Use to see a lot more passing compared to nowadays and any car that folds the nose down they are done for the night, also seems to make passing a lot more difficult when you are behind a car. Half the time the leader can’t get around a lapped car because of aerodynamics, there was a reason they went away from the wedge bodies and back to more normal looking cars. Maybe that’s what is needed again. Getting closer and closer to resembling nascar racing with downforce issues and looking more like an airplane instead of a race car.

You hit one of the huge problems. When we went to manufactured noses, they were much taller and no splitter. The sanction bodies just kept approving more and more aerodynamic noses and roofs with a rubber stamp. The negligence in safe guarding those items has made the cars race horribly.

[Drop Shock]

Mark Whitner failed the droop rule twice in one night. One of his crew members posted that once the car was in the air and rear end was off the ground picking up on the front end changed the measurement 1 inch to the good. Having a rule that is dependent on wheel loads when the primary tool to adjust a racecar throughout the night is manipulating wheel loads seems like a huge problem to me. How can the officials be this stubborn or stupid or both?

[dirtcrazy4u]

Turning back the clock. Remember when steve francis retired and became a part of lucas ? Everyone said change was coming, he'll get things back to were they belong. I guess collecting a pay check must not be so bad after all.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Mark Whitner failed the droop rule twice in one night. One of his crew members posted that once the car was in the air and rear end was off the ground picking up on the front end changed the measurement 1 inch to the good. Having a rule that is dependent on wheel loads when the primary tool to adjust a racecar throughout the night is manipulating wheel loads seems like a huge problem to me. How can the officials be this stubborn or stupid or both?

When you make rules stating the "right size bolt has to go in the right size hole", as if uncontrollable motion is a key to speed, you don't have a good grasp on what is happening. You are just throwing excrement against the wall, hoping something sticks, apparently trying to appease someone. That was 2016. It continues.

[Ltemodel]

The droop rule has been doing a great job of taking nice runs away from small time racers.

Casey Shuman is on Twitter talking about how "rich teams" were getting their spoiler higher on the track, so that made this necessary. I hate to tell him, but thinking and a grasp of geometry costs nothing. He just made the process more complicated, and thus more expensive. Maybe ask, "why does the quest for more hike exist"? It's downforce. Just take that away in a straightforward path. Problem solved.

When they say "big money", they really meaning thinking. They don't want thinking. They want spec cars. They want every new prospective owner to think he can buy a car as good as the Rumley 6. Racing does not work like that. It rewards hard work and ingenuity.

Amen. This is the exact thing I've been saying for a while. I got into late models from sprint car racing because it was, at the time, a place of wide open ideas. Now its so far clamped down, ideas are quickly squashed by more suspension rules.

[Ltemodel]

You hit one of the huge problems. When we went to manufactured noses, they were much taller and no splitter. The sanction bodies just kept approving more and more aerodynamic noses and roofs with a rubber stamp. The negligence in safe guarding those items has made the cars race horribly.

When Bob Memmer (please excuse the spelling if it is wrong) started UMP he tried hard to get rid of the slab downforce noses of the eighties and early nineties. Now the UMP concept is gone when they became affiliated with WoO. People used to complain at Eldora tech sessions, but looking back at it, it probably was pretty good for the sport.

[ALLDIRT]

How about just ending the droop rule????

Masters, what is your opinion?

I absolutely saw , and I won't say who went through or who let it .
But going across the scales at East Bay , a Lucas regular failed the drop
and was passed by . I saw more , but if your a regular , you can be passed by .
FACT .

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I absolutely saw , and I won't say who went through or who let it .
But going across the scales at East Bay , a Lucas regular failed the drop
and was passed by . I saw more , but if your a regular , you can be passed by .
FACT .

I've seen enough big guys ride bumpers all the way to deck height to believe you. I've seen guys follow a car past deck height check, prior to qualifying, and put an electric impact on the t bar jack bolt to believe you.

Now, regulars will probably lift on the front bumper to pass droop.

[Jking24]

I lost all respect for Steve Francis and any thing lucas says about two years ago. when I seen Steve walk up to nearly every series regular with his stick to check decks and wouldn't you know it every one of them was perfect. Only problem is I guess I was the only one looking at the other end of the stick that was over 3" off the ground most of the time. Meanwhile we almost weren't allowed to go out for the heat because we were less than a 1/4" high

[Buford.Justice]

I absolutely saw , and I won't say who went through or who let it .
But going across the scales at East Bay , a Lucas regular failed the drop
and was passed by . I saw more , but if your a regular , you can be passed by .
FACT .

I do believe that. The good ole boys are in the click!!

[Raceready]

I do believe that. The good ole boys are in the click!!

I think you could be on to something there !

[hardracer32]

Well I agree with a lot of the body rule suggestions. But I also believe that having the spoilers so high in the air needs to change also. I can also see some of the issues that it causes when it comes to adjusting the cars and still being able to pass tech. So my question is this- Is there a smart way to limit the "droop" or the ability of teams to get the car to pick up so high? Could we change something else and still achieve the same goal? I do, however, disagree with you on how much it costs MasterSbilt_Racer, to have these rules. It's always going to cost however much any given team has to spend. If they spent $50k on working around the droop rule, it's not like they're not still spending that money continuously on testing after that. So changing the rule so that they just change the focus of the testing and spending doesn't really cost them more money. They're always going to be trying to come up with ways to beat the system. That is my humble and respectful opinion. You are obviously a smart guy who is very knowlegable about this stuff, I always enjoy your input and having these conversations with you.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Well I agree with a lot of the body rule suggestions. But I also believe that having the spoilers so high in the air needs to change also. I can also see some of the issues that it causes when it comes to adjusting the cars and still being able to pass tech. So my question is this- Is there a smart way to limit the "droop" or the ability of teams to get the car to pick up so high? Could we change something else and still achieve the same goal? I do, however, disagree with you on how much it costs MasterSbilt_Racer, to have these rules. It's always going to cost however much any given team has to spend. If they spent $50k on working around the droop rule, it's not like they're not still spending that money continuously on testing after that. So changing the rule so that they just change the focus of the testing and spending doesn't really cost them more money. They're always going to be trying to come up with ways to beat the system. That is my humble and respectful opinion. You are obviously a smart guy who is very knowlegable about this stuff, I always enjoy your input and having these conversations with you.

Your argument about cost MAY apply to the mega teams with 600k budgets, but they are the minority in dirt late model racing. I'm sick of everyone only considering 12 teams about rules that affect a thousand people. I promise you it brings the guys Im involved with cost and aggravation. We stopped entering Lucas shows in 2017. I'm not saying they care, but it's not worth jumping thru their new hoops all the time.

It's their pooch, I wouldn't care how they screwed it if they applied every new ticky tac rule to themselves and left local racers alone. Quit pressuring local tracks and regional series to do the same thing they do. When parts I've used for 30 years continually become illegal, it's beyond maddening.

As I've already said, there isn't a smart way to have a droop rule. It makes way more sense to erase the benefits of getting dynamic deck height.

[Raceready]

Your argument about cost MAY apply to the mega teams with 600k budgets, but they are the minority in dirt late model racing. I'm sick of everyone only considering 12 teams about rules that affect a thousand people. I promise you it brings the guys Im involved with cost and aggravation. We stopped entering Lucas shows in 2017. I'm not saying they care, but it's not worth jumping thru their new hoops all the time.It's their pooch, I wouldn't care how they screwed it if they applied every new ticky tac rule to themselves and left local racers alone. Quit pressuring local tracks and regional series to do the same thing they do. When parts I've used for 30 years continually become illegal, it's beyond maddening.As I've already said, there isn't a smart way to have a droop rule. It makes way more sense to erase the benefits of getting dynamic deck height.

It all sounds like a CATCH 22...