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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Eastern Pa
    Posts
    906

    Default Are the Super's too expensive?

    I know this topic has been debated before, but what can be done to help improve car counts at the Regional level? Made my 2022 dirt track debut last night at Williams Grove for the 410 sprint cars & the ULMS late models. A PERFECT doubleheader in my opinion. No extra classes, and my favorite two divisions together for a reasonable $20 admission price. Granted the weather was on the cooler side and The Grove generally does not produce exciting racing for the DLM's, but I was really disappointed with a 15 car DLM field. The purse was "decent" with $3500 to win for the late models. After a few incidents in the heats, the feature started 13 cars. A bright spot for me, was seeing Scrub, Rick Eckert get the win. His winning never gets old for me. Something needs to be done to help improve car counts. Other than Port Royal, this seems to be the norm in my neck of the woods at Hagerstown, Winchester, Delaware International, Potomac, Selinsgrove etc. Kind of sad really......
    Last edited by BTExpress; 03-26-2022 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Yes. Dumb question. Next

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    4,093

    Default

    The weather and last weeks track conditions kept cars away from the grove last night

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    218

    Default

    every part of life is expensive right now...its a survival year

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    4,796

    Default

    Chevy LS crate motors boys and girls

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,569

    Default

    People make them too expensive by wasting money. They CAN be too expensive.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
    Moler - 3
    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -2
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
    Chevy LS crate motors boys and girls
    Don't need more crates. Get one out of a car or truck and improve it yourself.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
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    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -2
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sheridan Ar
    Posts
    694

    Default

    D@mn a Chevrolet!!!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    8,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    Don't need more crates. Get one out of a car or truck and improve it yourself.
    Some people on here try to tell you that you can't go to a junk yard and get some 5.3 out of a truck and make it work. I'm glad you are to tell them you can make it work 🤣
    2022 Races
    WVMS-1
    Smokey Mountain-1
    PRP-1
    Eldora-3 3/4ths
    Atomic-3

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    4,796

    Default

    Modified LS. Iím cool with that.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    8,136

    Default

    Every rule made to save money ends up costing more money.
    Follow me on Twitter: @JoshBayko

    Guerrilla Racing Junkies!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,528

    Default

    You will never stop technology, and that's what drives cost up. Look at today's motors, sure they cost 60k, but they don't seem to grenade like they used to. To bring costs back in line they need to take away all the aero the cars have today. Free them up and you don't need the HP they make today.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    983

    Default

    Absolutely SPOT-ON saying this is a survival year. ALL costs are thru the roof. Doesn't matter if you race a 4cyl or a late model. We started noticing years ago less and less asses in the stands. THATS the REAL problem! Only so many dollars left over when it costs $50 to fill your vehicle and $125 to buy 3 bags of groceries and a gallon of milk. Besides, WHY go sit 5 hrs to see 7 different divisions when you can sit home and watch it the next day free of FB or someone "streaming" from the stands.
    As far as Bristol goes. These "promotors" are taking advantage of a sport that the little Saturday night tracks created. They don't give a flying crap the local tracks may as well shut down while they have they're mega events. The ONLY way things are gonna survive is we QUIT paying team "A" and half million and start taking care of team "B"! These hot-dog teams starting up front and riding around need to end. Christ sake they're cars don't even get dirty. I doud't the 44 even broke a sweat last night? And talk about a blah,blah,blah victory lane interview! He could care less. His eye's where rolling like a slot machine in Vegas.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtcrazy4u View Post
    You will never stop technology, and that's what drives cost up. Look at today's motors, sure they cost 60k, but they don't seem to grenade like they used to. To bring costs back in line they need to take away all the aero the cars have today. Free them up and you don't need the HP they make today.
    Often times, it's perceived technology. Why else do spring rods come back 25 years after their first introduction? Why are the classified full of Penske air dump? How many cars still have an air shock on the LR? Why do guys change shock brands 3 times a season and go the same speed? All 3 shocks are as good as the guy who built them. All three force oil through an orifice to produce a force with a relationship relative to the shaft speed. Why do guys pay $50k for an engine to run mid pack and never push the throttle pedal past 50%? There are people who spent my teams annual budget to have tungsten axle tubes manufactured. Did it help? Was that the only way?

    Racing costs whatever you want to spend. Every once in a while, a dollar actually translates to speed. That usually comes from hiring someone who can tell you how to better use what you have.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 03-27-2022 at 07:37 AM.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
    Moler - 3
    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -2
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    central Ky Institution
    Posts
    13

    Default

    The Topic // Is late models too expensive ?
    How wide is a late model tire ? Im guessing 12 or 13 inches.
    I have said this a couple times reduce the width down to 10 inches.
    Over night fix... fair for everyone... less horse power.
    Am i nuts or please tell me why this would not bring down cost.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Childers View Post
    The Topic // Is late models too expensive ?
    How wide is a late model tire ? Im guessing 12 or 13 inches.
    I have said this a couple times reduce the width down to 10 inches.
    Over night fix... fair for everyone... less horse power.
    Am i nuts or please tell me why this would not bring down cost.
    It could. I'd prefer less aero. Then I don't need new wheels.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
    Moler - 3
    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -2
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    southwestern ohio
    Posts
    268

    Default

    Hey, what about changing the body so its not so aero dependent...like the bodies on the ARCA class stock cars..there pretty tough...u can beat and bang a bit and still keep the sides on it.......otherwise this class will have a hard time surviving on a LOCAL level....ole buddy used to say, " how fast you wanna go, it depends on how much you got to spend" its a bummer that it got this way, but thats the way of racing!!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    983

    Default

    Late models are NOT to expensive because of the body. My god people.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    12,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dynotimeonly View Post
    Late models are NOT to expensive because of the body. My god people.
    Do you have any idea of the downforce difference from a curved roof to a flat, raked roof? How about a flat deck to a sloped one? How about a nose that's 50% taller with no splitter to what we have now? My God you are blind. The roof alone is huge. It used to generate lift. I can tell you the deck, body skew, and other differences since 2013 are worth nearly a half second at a decent speed 3/8 mile. I've tested it firsthand. I realize alot of these changes have happened slowly, while rules makers were asleep at the wheel. It's like slowly heating a frog to boil. He doesn't realize it until he's dinner.

    The engine is the most expensive part. You need more of it because the car is loaded hard by the body. It's the wedge car all over again. People say we need more power "cause them fancy Bilstein shocks", but they are blind. Yes, the suspension geometry has been improved over the years and resulted in some gains. It's beyond ignorant to ignore hundreds of extra pounds of downforce. I don't mean hundreds, like 200, we are talking closer to 1000#.

    Way too many people thinking like you is why this sport is dying and why every stupid rule from the last 8 years has done nothing. The real problems are ignored in a quest to make sure they look the same under the body.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 03-28-2022 at 07:24 AM.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
    Moler - 3
    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -2
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BTExpress View Post
    I know this topic has been debated before, but what can be done to help improve car counts at the Regional level? Made my 2022 dirt track debut last night at Williams Grove for the 410 sprint cars & the ULMS late models. A PERFECT doubleheader in my opinion. No extra classes, and my favorite two divisions together for a reasonable $20 admission price. Granted the weather was on the cooler side and The Grove generally does not produce exciting racing for the DLM's, but I was really disappointed with a 15 car DLM field. The purse was "decent" with $3500 to win for the late models. After a few incidents in the heats, the feature started 13 cars. A bright spot for me, was seeing Scrub, Rick Eckert get the win. His winning never gets old for me. Something needs to be done to help improve car counts. Other than Port Royal, this seems to be the norm in my neck of the woods at Hagerstown, Winchester, Delaware International, Potomac, Selinsgrove etc. Kind of sad really......
    Williams Grove isn't a fair assessment of the situation. After they flipped and hurt a guy last year (almost got 2 others too) we come right back around to this year and last week they tried to do the same thing to 3 more guys at the exact same spot. Of course the car count will be less the next time because its obvious the track has no desire to fix anything.

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