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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    509

    Default Are we really getting faster?

    Just got back from the XR race at Belleville, KS. Its the fastest 1/2 mile in the country for those that haven't been there. You pretty much never lift if your car is right. The field usually gets spread out, but the speeds will give you the chills. Its definitely faster than Bristol.

    Watching Davenport run a 16.3 second lap in qualifying and not obliterate the record Billy Moyer set in 2007 of 16.1 caught me by surprise. Davenport said he had a "big boy" in the car. I don't believe it was the same car/motor he ran at Eldora.

    In the past 15 years or so we have developed some amazing shocks, have better motors that produce more drivable power, and are using aero to our advantage.

    I don't know what the track was like in 2007 when Moyer set the record, but I have been to Belleville many times over the years, but I'm guessing it wasn't that much different than in the past. Perhaps it was and this may have played into why Davenport didn't set a new record. Maybe Billet remembers?

    Also the additional downforce cars produce these days comes with additional drag which would make the cars slower.

    With all of these improvements and dollars spent over the past few years why didn't we see a big difference in lap times?

  2. #2
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    Jul 2013
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    This has been discussed in the past, and I believe the general consensus is the cars are not necessarily faster, but they don't fall off near as much when the track slicks off. I watch some of those old videos from 20+ years ago, and think, "How on earth did I find this exciting?" The cars were so flat, just sliding around.

    I've asked this very question myself, though, most certainly in light of the HP gains we've seen over the years. But other things to consider...in my area (UMP land), our softest tire used to be a 10, now it's a 20. I don't think it was uncommon for chemicals or additives to be used in track prep back in the day. Now it's pretty much just water.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    It seems like, just by memory, the lap times are only slightly better, but instead of backing it into the fence and drag racing down the straight, today, it's all about corner speed and basically not slowing down as much. Most of the passing is on corner entry these days.

  4. #4
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    May 2007
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    Maybe I don't remember the times but I swear Moyer at the extreme race there ran a 17.1 not a 16.1. I remember this because when we ran there with NCRA, MLRA and etc, Boen, Anderson, and Purkey have ran mid 16's during those features and we all figured the top time in qualifying would be way faster and might hit a 15 second zone.

    I also don't remember what tire we ran at the extreme race (Doug bland race - was the old hava-tampa series) but I recall that being more 2004ish but maybe Moyer set a track record at the WoO race that Kelly Boen won and that's when the 16.1 happened (that may been the 2007 range as it was after the extreme race a few years). Extreme should have been the Goodyear tire which IIRC was similar to a hard wrs 55 or LM 40 we ran 3 days ago.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Batavia, OH
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    12,585

    Default

    They are a little faster on a fast track. They are tremendously faster on a slick track. As others have already said. There is more drag and the rubber is harder, in general.its hard to compare on a track where supers rarely run. We don't set NTRs at every track every year, but most are not 20 years old.
    East Bay - 2
    Atomic - 2
    Florence -4
    Moler - 3
    Portsmouth -2
    Eldora - 3
    Brushcreek -3
    Lawrenceburg -1
    35 Raceway - 1
    Droop isn't the problem. "Mr. Steelblock"

  6. #6
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    May 2007
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    Kansas
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    JD ran a 16.00 in hot laps, 16.3 in qualifying and a 15.9 in the heat, this weekend.

    Watch his in car camera in the feature, when jason told him he had a lead he was coasting and talking it easy. He only stayed on the gas for a few laps until he got a bit of a lead and eased off quite a bit. No idea what his race lap times where to be honest.

  7. #7
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    At the extreme race the race track was extremely wet and I mean wet. We had like 40 cars there from what I remember and think we ran a support class on the track also. Come feature time we were only half way up the track and EPJ was running 16.3 in the feature with a real cushion (not ledged but a good cushion).

    Back when they watered the track, it's was always faster after it slicked off some as the wet dirt bogged the cars in the corner and you lost 15 mph in the corners (I know there really isn't corners but you lost MPH in the middle of 1 and 2 and later exit off 4).

    They have also took backing out of the track at some point after the extreme race but if it was before or after the WoO, I just don't remember any more.

  8. #8
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    I also know guys where running about the same gear we ran back in the day, but we didn't turn as much RPM with the big motors as they do now. Typical gear was round as high as a 5.08 to as low as a 5.30 something back then.

    My motor back then that Purkey used (2005 to 2007ish) pulled a 5.23 or 5.28 gear at 8100 to 8300 depending on track speed.

  9. #9
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    OK, hard to find dates and times but I found this

    The Stacker 2ģ Xtreme DirtCar Series was 2004 (we where there and raced and recall lap times)
    Competitors may ONLY use the Goodyear Eagle Racing Tire X-400, the American Racer MD-56 or the Hoosier LM 40. (same basic tire as this weekend)

    WoO was 2008 (I was not there and have no idea lap times but know Kelly won)
    No idea on tire rule but image they had an option of a softer tire for qualifying and heat races, which could be huge on qualifying lap times

  10. #10
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    May 2007
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    Kansas
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    2008 WoO show: Pearsonís blazing lap of 16.187 seconds in time trials precisely matched the one-lap standard established by Billy Moyer of Batesville, Ark., on June 17, 2007.

  11. #11
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    May 2007
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    Kansas
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    2008:

    Time Trial Results (Position/No./Driver/Hometown/Best Lap):

    1. 44-Earl Pearson Jr./Jacksonville, FL 16.187 (111.200)
    2. 07-Kelly Boen/Henderson, CO 16.323
    3. 1-Josh Richards/Shinnston, WV 16.426
    4. 41-Al Purkey/Coffeyville, KS 16.480
    5. 18-Shannon Babb/Moweaqua, IL 16.502
    6. 24-Rick Eckert/York, PA 16.505
    7. 1*-Chub Frank/Bear Lake, PA 16.510
    8. 29-Darrell Lanigan/Union, KY 16.535
    9. 44-Clint Smith/Senoia, GA 16.551
    10. 23-John Blankenship/Williamson, WV 16.567
    11. 2-John Anderson/Omaha, NE 16.640
    12. 32c-Vic Coffey/Leicester, NY 16.687
    13. 25-Shane Clanton/Locust Grove, GA 16.690
    14. 19-Tim Fuller/Watertown, NY 16.702
    15. 19-Steve Francis/Ashland, KY 16.708
    16. 22c-Dave Conkwright/Manhattan, KS 17.085
    17. 27J-Danny Johnson/Phelps, NY 17.138
    18. 31-Kelly Dunn/Salina, KS 17.145
    19. 14M-Dean Moore/Grand Junction, CO 17.308
    20. 18s-Sean Beardsley/Central Square, NY 17.329
    21. 6J-Joe Isabell/Pennellville, NY 17.348
    22. T1T-Earl Kinderknecht/Salina, KS 17.364
    23. 15W-Mike Wiarda/Aurora, NE 17.372
    24. 29-Bill Koons/Omaha, NE 17.736
    25. 18H-Dustin Hapka/Grand Forks, ND 17.885
    26. 21-Steven Foster/Abilene, KS 18.035
    27. 02-John Kuchar/Brighton, CO 18.219
    28. 49-Wylan Petrie/Solomon, KS 18.997
    29. 13-Rick Law/Wetmore, KS 21.500

    Purkey was there and qualified 4th, I seriously don't remember being there. However I believe that is when he was driving for Bill Koons in a rocket so I was there just don't remember anything about it

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    129

    Default

    Billet,
    I have a dvd from the WoO race where Moyer broke the track record and Clint Smith won. The date of the race is 06.17.2007. I remember when Moyer went through turn 3 I thought (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) he is moving. Still think the old Brunswick was faster.

    I also vaguely remember the Xtreme race. Seems like it was wet and the race was much better than the WoO race of 2017. I believe Mars, Pearson, and Birky battled it out that night. But not sure.

  13. #13
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    Jan 2008
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    129

    Default

    Those Goodyear tires were pretty good. We ran them in crates one year and could get 4 good races out of them. Then they switched to 1350ís and we had to get tires every race.

  14. #14
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    May 2007
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    tulsa america
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    Default

    You said it but i will say it again. They took banking out of it, think that really slows places down. Tire obviously is the other deal that slows it down

  15. #15
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    Aug 2018
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    Default

    Still think the old Brunswick was faster.

    Wayyyyy faster. Madden set the track record at 144 plus!

    A state trooper clocked him on radar at 174 on the back straightaway!
    An army of sheep led by a lion(Trump), is mightier than an army of lions, led by a sheep(Biden).

  16. #16
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    May 2007
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    734

    Default

    I thought they (the press release) stated Davenport went broke the Belleville track record 3 different times on Monday night.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsracing View Post
    I thought they (the press release) stated Davenport went broke the Belleville track record 3 different times on Monday night.

    #Note I never looked at race monitor as someone said they weren't showing laps times so I never bothered to look, well they are showing them now.

    fastest single lap per session
    JD hotlaps 00:16.004
    qualifying 00:16.308
    heat race 00:15.966
    feature 00:16.318

    I really don't know if he has the track record or not due to it him breaking it only in hotlaps and heat race but not during qualifying, shrugs.

  18. #18
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    Kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Still think the old Brunswick was faster.

    Wayyyyy faster. Madden set the track record at 144 plus!

    A state trooper clocked him on radar at 174 on the back straightaway!
    What gear was they pulling, lol

    A 4.11 gear at 8285 RPM is required to hit 174 MPH

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    129

    Default

    Bill Schleiper sat in front of me the night Dan won. Everyone was debating the actual speed. I asked Bill his opinion. He told me they calculated the gear vs tire diameter and they thought 175 was correct. That place was amazing.

    Bloomquist in his prime passing cars on the outside entering 3 was amazing. No one else really passed anyone.

    My opinion is Eldora isnít close to that place. Nor was the old Gaffney.

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