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Old picture of #28 Jimmy Mars early in his career ---------------- Thought I'd share.
A salute to Jimmy and his career.
#28 Jimmy Mars early in his career.
Jimmy decided to retire and hang it up a few months ago.
He put modified racer Dustin Sorenson in his car.
This was my favorite style of dirt late models. Mid 1980's thru the early 1990's.
Nathan Stephens
Next Race - TBA
2024 Season: 5 - Brownstown (IN) 1, Fairbury (IL) 1, Farmer City (IL) 1, Grundy Co (IL) 1, & Kankakee (IL) 1
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Cool. Thanks for sharing.
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Originally Posted by HoosierDirtFan
A salute to Jimmy and his career.#28 Jimmy Mars early in his career.Jimmy decided to retire and hang it up a few months ago.He put modified racer Dustin Sorenson in his car.This was my favorite style of dirt late models. Mid 1980's thru the early 1990's.
That is the era when DLM racing was at its best.
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The golden era of this sport for sure. Didn’t k ow how good we had it back then. Lots of good memories going to the races back then.
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those were the best years. it's a shame the idiots who run the series and build the chassis's can't see that racing was better then.
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So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?
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Originally Posted by Patansplant
So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?
Yes, tube frames (honestly not that much different from todays). Could have been a variety of suspension-four link, watts link, cantilever, leaf, mono-leaf, three link.... four link seems to have won out.....
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Yep, That was my favorite era for the Late Models too. Maybe because that's primarily when we ran them. They were in a transitioning phase from stock front clips and rear suspension was all over the place.
Larry Shaw was one of the first with using Ford front spring buckets on otherwise fabbed front ends to beat the stock stub rules that prevailed out west. We beat the rule with a Chrysler K member and torsion bar front end and the rest was tube. Eventually the K member front was outlawed and put a Cutlass clip on it. Used Ford Fairmont/Mercury Zephyr rack& pinion steering, $15 at the Pick 'n Pull, on our home built car. Ran stack leaf rear and gradually went to coilover/monoleaf. About the time we finally got the car really competitive the class almost overnight died off in the early '90s.
It was also the time when the home builders started getting left behind by the big pro chassis builders. Great time to be a racer/builder and super bucks weren't necessary to have a ton of fun.
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Originally Posted by Patansplant
So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?
I think it was around 1995 or 96 when some of the chassis builders started replacing the regular box shaped rails used for the main frame with all round tubing. It might have been GRT that pioneered the concept.
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Awesome, I love hearing some of these used to be stories.
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Originally Posted by EvelB7
Yes, tube frames (honestly not that much different from todays). Could have been a variety of suspension-four link, watts link, cantilever, leaf, mono-leaf, three link.... four link seems to have won out.....
4 links were around in the mid 80s, died out, and then came back in the mid 90s. They didn't really become the dominant choice until the early to mid 00s.
Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 01-02-2023 at 06:23 AM.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 2
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Originally Posted by Raceready
I think it was around 1995 or 96 when some of the chassis builders started replacing the regular box shaped rails used for the main frame with all round tubing. It might have been GRT that pioneered the concept.
Round tube cars have been around since the early 80's, some Bullitt cars from that era where round tube. Most people thought the square tube was stronger, but others followed over the years (went from 2x3 rails to 2x2 rails, then on to round).
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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer
4 links were around in the mid 80s, died out, and then came back in the mid 90s. They didn't really become the dominant choice until the early to mid 00s.
The midwest (Iowa) had a lot of four link stuff from the 80's on. Larry Shaw really popularized it, I moved south with a Shaw car in the early 90's. When I switched to Warrior I got one of their first four link cars (probably around '94, they wanted me to run mono leaf); I know Skip Arp got one at that time as well. I would say more than half of the cars in the Carolinas where four links by the end of the 90's.
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Originally Posted by EvelB7
The midwest (Iowa) had a lot of four link stuff from the 80's on. Larry Shaw really popularized it, I moved south with a Shaw car in the early 90's. When I switched to Warrior I got one of their first four link cars (probably around '94, they wanted me to run mono leaf); I know Skip Arp got one at that time as well. I would say more than half of the cars in the Carolinas where four links by the end of the 90's.
The only builder in my neck of the woods, that built them in the 80s was Swartz, and he went back to mono leaf. There were virtually no 4 links at Florence, Brownstown, or Southern Ohio in the early 90s.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 2
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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer
The only builder in my neck of the woods, that built them in the 80s was Swartz, and he went back to mono leaf. There were virtually no 4 links at Florence, Brownstown, or Southern Ohio in the early 90s.
Warrior really wanted me to go with a mono leaf, I wanted to stay with the four link. The coilovers where in front on both sides (on the birdcage) and the panhard bar went from the left side of the rear end to the right side frame mount (can't remember when the panhard moved to left). GRT was big on the four link as well, I believe they implemented the 'coil over behind' on the left rear first (before that we would clamp the left rear on the axle tube versus the birdcage to promote bite).
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Originally Posted by EvelB7
Warrior really wanted me to go with a mono leaf, I wanted to stay with the four link. The coilovers where in front on both sides (on the birdcage) and the panhard bar went from the left side of the rear end to the right side frame mount (can't remember when the panhard moved to left). GRT was big on the four link as well, I believe they implemented the 'coil over behind' on the left rear first (before that we would clamp the left rear on the axle tube versus the birdcage to promote bite).
Skip Arp did the lr behind first. He was a GRT driver. By the winter, I think 98?, all new 4 links were built that way. The digressive nature made the cars hike up easier and go forward, but slowing down for the corner was a problem for years to come. That kept swing arm cars competitive for several more years. People still think there is some magic to the actual location of the coilover, but it's just wheel rate that made it work. We had a zink, with vastly different top and bottom bar lengths, but similar motion ratio, that worked exactly the same, back in those days.
Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 01-02-2023 at 01:45 PM.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 2
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If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?
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Originally Posted by Patansplant
If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?
Wheel rate means force to move the tire with respect to the chassis a certain distance, instead of just looking at the spring rate.
Z link is like a swing arm, but coilover mounted on the birdcage. Typically, bottom bar goes forward from rear end, and top bar goes backwards from rear end, instead of both bars forward, like a 4 link.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 2
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My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the right rear coil over phase?
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My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?
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