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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Eastern Pa
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    1,094

    Default New DLM Chassis Builders

    Afrer seeing Ross Bailes win at Screven on Saturday night, in a new Double Nickle Race car built by Benji Hicks and seeing others like Ricky Weiss (Sniper Chassis), Cory Hedgec*ck (BMF Race Cars), and Austin Kirkpatrick with his AK Racecars attempt to break into the DLM chassis wars, do you think they will be sucessful in the world of Rockets and Longhorns or will they cater to the Crate car teams? Seems to be tough place to get a foothold into . MB Customs, Black Diamond and Capital all seem to be doing well on the regional level. Not sure about old timers Barry Wright and Mastersbuilt?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    3,204

    Default

    Rocket has had there house car for probably 20 + years. Horn has had a top team represent there brand for a long time. The problem today is the chassis builders out there don't want to offer teams a deal to come on board. I also think most are happy doing what there doing, crate care, repairs and clips. Bwrc tries but the team usually ends up getting parked early in the year.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    thedirtysouth
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    4,004

    Default

    if there good at fabricating , they can build either one of the top brands , or just maybe , a combination of the two ,,,,,

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    538

    Default

    How many of those new brands are copies?

    Black Diamond is the biggest offender.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    13,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlatTire View Post
    How many of those new brands are copies?

    Black Diamond is the biggest offender.
    How do you define copy? I mean the geometry isn't a ton different comparing any of them. We have like 2 different lower control arm mounting point widths. Control arm lengths are fairly similar. They aren't a lot different from the original tube chassis cars. The whole front end could be improved tremendously. Everyone is just polishing the same turd.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer View Post
    How do you define copy? I mean the geometry isn't a ton different comparing any of them. We have like 2 different lower control arm mounting point widths. Control arm lengths are fairly similar. They aren't a lot different from the original tube chassis cars. The whole front end could be improved tremendously. Everyone is just polishing the same turd.
    Tell em mastersbilt!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sheridan Ar
    Posts
    727

    Default

    The BMF car is a copy of a black diamond. Right down to the tabs for the side panels. Every chassis out there is a copy of something else. What difference does it make.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    885

    Default

    There is more to copying a chassis than the general public realizes. There are different types of materials and thicknesses used in certain places to get the chassis to react a certain way. All tubing of the same size is not the same and you don't know what that tubing is without either expensive non destructive testing, or cutting it apart. Pickup points are important, but what the chassis does between those points is just as important. I've witnessed one late model team struggle early in the year cut out one bar with a sawzall and their whole season turned around. One of the top modified builders is known to sleeve some key areas of the car to allow it to flex and it can be seen by the powdercoat being wore off in the area where it moves. There is definitely a science to chassis building that not every builder understands.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    488

    Default

    I drive a CVR, which is a pretty small time chassis builder, but I can assure you the design if the chassis is original. I had a 2015 car first that I had alot of success with, and working with Chip is so easy, I put together a new 22 last year and won the first race out. I do alot of bodies and sheet metal work for guys in the area and I can't find any similarities at all to any of the xr1, black diamond, or horn cars I've put together. I love when guys ask what it's a copy of and show them that it's not even close to a copy and the look on they're face.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Batavia, OH
    Posts
    13,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ImCryn2 View Post
    There is more to copying a chassis than the general public realizes. There are different types of materials and thicknesses used in certain places to get the chassis to react a certain way. All tubing of the same size is not the same and you don't know what that tubing is without either expensive non destructive testing, or cutting it apart. Pickup points are important, but what the chassis does between those points is just as important. I've witnessed one late model team struggle early in the year cut out one bar with a sawzall and their whole season turned around. One of the top modified builders is known to sleeve some key areas of the car to allow it to flex and it can be seen by the powdercoat being wore off in the area where it moves. There is definitely a science to chassis building that not every builder understands.
    What the chassis shouldn't do between the pickup points is be a non-tuneable, dominate spring. That's where dirt racing has some bad science. The spring rate should be high enough to not really be a factor.

    There are sonic checkers good enough to determine the thickness of a chassis without cutting it up. At that point stiffness should be the same, regardless of material, as long as we are not talking about a seamed tube. The loads on each chassis member should be far enough away from the yield point that they all act the same, regardless of material used. All steels are basically the same modulus of elasticity.

    Where science is needed is keeping your process consistent from car to car when you build a bunch. You need to be mindful of what stresses get introduced during welding. Notching to fit tubes together needs to be consistent. Joint angles need to be consistent. If you are using a seamed tube, orientation of that seam needs to be consistent.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 02-11-2023 at 10:54 AM.
    Modern Day Wedge Racing
    Florence -1

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    695

    Default

    One of the major chassis builders currently 'stresses' the chassis to get repeatable numbers. Not only can they tell how one car compares to another, they keep track and can pull it down to see that it stays consistent through 'x' amount of races. In the long run, more cars, more data, and they will be able to not only provide a better product they will also understand why one car runs better at certain tracks than others...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    5,197

    Default

    Is Longhorn the only chassis with cnc'ed bent tubes? Basically, the whole car comes in a box and then welded on the jig!

    Hoffman(Elite Chassis) has been doing it for years!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    8,596

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Is Longhorn the only chassis with cnc'ed bent tubes? Basically, the whole car comes in a box and then welded on the jig!

    Hoffman(Elite Chassis) has been doing it for years!
    Remember the new zero car Bronson was supposed to get? It was a pile tubes. Sweets shop was closed by then, and Scott wouldn't touch any of it. So basically, Kyle bought a box of useless tubing. I think Tad Posposil ending up buying after a bunch of time passed though.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    4,631

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyoung25 View Post
    Remember the new zero car Bronson was supposed to get? It was a pile tubes. Sweets shop was closed by then, and Scott wouldn't touch any of it. So basically, Kyle bought a box of useless tubing. I think Tad Posposil ending up buying after a bunch of time passed though.
    Some how or another somebody got ripped on off on that deal ?

  15. #15
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    Feb 2017
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    Add another question mark to SBR if that surprises anyone I'd be surprised.

  16. #16
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raceready View Post
    Some how or another somebody got ripped on off on that deal ?
    I can't remember all of the details exactly. I remember Bronson paid for 2 new cars and only got parts for one or something like that. So basically, when Kyle asked about getting his other one after a couple months passed, he found out he wasn't getting his other new car.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    tn
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    Zyyoung
    Your info on the Bloomer/Bronson deal is far from the truth.

  18. #18
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    Oct 2017
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    1,361

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    Is Longhorn the only chassis with cnc'ed bent tubes? Basically, the whole car comes in a box and then welded on the jig!Hoffman(Elite Chassis) has been doing it for years!
    rocket has been using cnc bender/ notcher for well over a decade. Don't know when they started but I can tell you it's been their since my first personal dealings with them in 2012

  19. #19
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire2dirtracing View Post
    Zyyoung
    Your info on the Bloomer/Bronson deal is far from the truth.
    Well tell us then. I said I didn't remember all of the details. 

  20. #20
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    Jun 2010
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    tn
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    I am not the 4m historian- but your statement was/is incorrect-I e will leave it at that- I don’t want the drama! Long story short: Kyle thought he was getting Bloomer’s personal race cars and got po’ed when he found out he wasn’t. He and his rich uncle at Brandon Ford didn’t like the bloomer situation and bailed out. Bronson (unless amends have been made) has a very strong dislike for the aliens in Mooresburg-certain spaceships we’re not for sale.

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