Ricky Thornton Jr

[KTMLew]

Was at Rodney Combs shop and Mark Richards was talking to someone about making the chassis builds consistent for easier repairs. Said Barry Wright was building his cars on the garage floor and only "jigged" the suspension mounts. Sure didn't seem to slow those cars down.

Main difference in current car and one from 20 years ago is the right frame rail is raised now so doesn't work like a rototiller. I know they use better tubing and cage heights are little different but you get the point.

The suspension is still where the speed is found.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Always find it interesting when others say he's NOT faster than the rest. He consistently pulls everyone 3-4 car length from mid-corner to flagstand. I can't imagine how the driver does that unless they run different line than others (like Bloomer running really straight). His advantage is coming off, not running in, to door everyone.

I like seeing someone find that something extra. Purvis was the guy back in my day. You knew everyone was racing for 2nd if no tire or crash issues for him.

That's exactly where you would gain when you fix what needs fixed

[TS FAN]

I don't care who wins, but I have always favored some kind of invert or draw for the lineups. Watching a car win from the pole most races is not my idea of a good race. I say congrats to Ricky and his team for forging ahead, but I enjoyed watching him a lot more when he had to work his way to the front. You automatically put the best and fasted car on the pole and the race is usually over.

This is especially true in the 40-50 lap features

[Henry Every]

Barry has been using a jig table for quite some time... How long ago was this conversation? As far as RTJ goes I think they worked on their own car and focused less on worrying about what others were doing and did what needed doing.

[KTMLew]

Barry has been using a jig table for quite some time... How long ago was this conversation? As far as RTJ goes I think they worked on their own car and focused less on worrying about what others were doing and did what needed doing.

Early/mid-80's. Was when Mark Richards worked for Rodney Combs at WRC. Few years before Mark started Rocket. I took the conversation as pointing to fact, jigging was only absolutely nec for repeatability. He wanted every car to be precisely the same so you knew when repairing, this bar is x/y/b distance from this bar. Not saying things didn't get changed when needed. But he said he'd worked on chassis built in same time period that positions of tubing were somewhat random.

Must remember this was when pavement chassis like Howe (WRC) were being adapted to dirt use. 3-link/leaf-spring/mono-leaf with coils/coilovers/cantilever of all sorts & finally birdcaged 4-link with 5th/6th coil, etc. Let's say from late 70's to 1990? The 80's were wild! Was right in my sweet spot. I loved all the new tech even if it didn't workout to be better. Try something. Pennsboro was the place to be to see newest stuff.

[MIdlmfan]

I don't care who wins, but I have always favored some kind of invert or draw for the lineups. Watching a car win from the pole most races is not my idea of a good race. I say congrats to Ricky and his team for forging ahead, but I enjoyed watching him a lot more when he had to work his way to the front. You automatically put the best and fasted car on the pole and the race is usually over.This is especially true in the 40-50 lap features

I pretty much agree but I am a bit troubled with penalizing somebody for being good when it is there meal ticket… that being said when RTJ drew the 3 pill Sunday night and was first or second out I didn’t even have to watch to know what the result would be at the end of the night … as a fan I would not have paid to watch that and with no fans no payday and I don’t care what was happening in the middle of the pack so that part of me favors inverts … again it is a bit of penalizing somebody for being good but geez let’s have some double file restarts the racing at the Big E can sometimes be less than great but those double file restarts are killer everybody at the world 100 the last year was on their feet when JD and Hudson lined up side-by-side after the last caution

[jog49]

Bottom line . . . . if for some reason you don't like RTJ, you will be in for some miserable times in the future!

[Austin34471]

That's exactly where you would gain when you fix what needs fixed

A: If he was running different RR geometry, it would be easy to spot, especially since LH's only have ~3 holes for adjusting bar angles
B: I am not convinced that the RR anti-squat settings need "fixing". When you're going down the straightaway (lat accel approaches 0) you need to shed rear axle misalignment and wedge.. which the current config does pretty well.

[blncfn57]

Ricky is good, but I do not think HE is the sole reason the cars are faster. They're prolly doing stuff most people say doesn't work.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

A: If he was running different RR geometry, it would be easy to spot, especially since LH's only have ~3 holes for adjusting bar angles
B: I am not convinced that the RR anti-squat settings need "fixing". When you're going down the straightaway (lat accel approaches 0) you need to shed rear axle misalignment and wedge.. which the current config does pretty well.

You can shed misalignment with the difference in weight transfer alone. You definitely don't want to be "catching" your rr as you are trying to enter the corner.

You also don't want runaway thrust vectors where there's no feedback loop with the weight the tire is carrying. That leads to very inconsistent axle alignment unless you are trying really hard to alter it with shocks that are not functioning as a shock. Again, that has the potential to be very bad to compliance.

[KTMLew]

You can shed misalignment with the difference in weight transfer alone. You definitely don't want to be "catching" your rr as you are trying to enter the corner.

You also don't want runaway thrust vectors where there's no feedback loop with the weight the tire is carrying. That leads to very inconsistent axle alignment unless you are trying really hard to alter it with shocks that are not functioning as a shock. Again, that has the potential to be very bad to compliance.

MonroeMatics are good enough.

[EvelB7]

A: If he was running different RR geometry, it would be easy to spot, especially since LH's only have ~3 holes for adjusting bar anglesB: I am not convinced that the RR anti-squat settings need "fixing". When you're going down the straightaway (lat accel approaches 0) you need to shed rear axle misalignment and wedge.. which the current config does pretty well.

Not sure on what Ricky has figured out, but in response to (A). Realize they use shear plates for several reasons, one is to make your mounting points more versatile (not just 3 holes)...change a shear plate and everything looks close to the same but is not.

[Austin34471]

You can shed misalignment with the difference in weight transfer alone.

Not following. I agree you can change the heading of the thrust vector of the rearend with Δrear wheel weight, but you can’t change the direction of the snouts.

You definitely don't want to be "catching" your rr as you are trying to enter the corner.

Not sure how you can say this definitively. You may be elastically “catching” the RR, but not inelastically.. and not sure that’s inherently bad.

You also don't want runaway thrust vectors where there's no feedback loop with the weight the tire is carrying. That leads to very inconsistent axle alignment unless you are trying really hard to alter it with shocks that are not functioning as a shock. Again, that has the potential to be very bad to compliance.

It can only “runaway” until you get to the end of straight away. RR 4 link bar thrust angle and lateral acceleration have a nicely inverted relationship. Gotta do something with all that wedge once you get to the straightaway. I agree with your fundamentalist stance of wanting the shock absorbers to actually absorb shocks, but I think the tires are floppy enough to sufficiently band aid all of these other band aids. I’d love to think there’s a simple solution to this, but the dirt racing hive mind has spit out and optimized this configuration for some reason, and I’d hazard a guess it would be harder to fix than you are implying.

[jog49]

MonroeMatics are good enough.

Hey, you can get those at AutoZone and they're not $2000 a pop!!!! LOL!!!!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The snouts change direction based on the steer that results from the weight transfer.

You runaway until you hit a physical limit. Hitting a physical limit is bad.

Catching the rr on entry can be elastic, inelastic, I don't care. Either way you have to travel a bit to reload the rr. That relatively sudden height and steer change, just as you are trying to ramp the load on that wheel, is a lot to balance and sort out.

We put up with the same negative aspects on the lr to put the right attack angle in the aero package. There is no good reason to run around with your rr also on a travel limiter or play around with wheel displacement resulting from thrust vector. Just let the suspension do it's job.

My limited application of my perspective has only encouraged me. The dewedge and steer argument can only go so far. It's impossible to be optimally loaded at all points on the lap. You make the best load and alignment compromise you can at all points to get the best lap time you can.

[Pennsboro32]

Tell me you never watched Ricky race Mods without telling me you never watched Ricky race Mods. Same thing. RTJ is a generational dirt racing talent. He has amazing vision and timing. He also has the uncanny ability to find the fastest lines on the track. His car is really not any different. There are no secrets in this game anymore.

It has more to do with the car than it does his driving ability. He’s good, they’re all good. But they’ve hit on something just like JD did a couple years ago, just like Overton did, etc. you can tell by just watching the car lol

[chopter33]

It has more to do with Ricky. He's the difference.

[KTMLew]

It has more to do with Ricky. He's the difference.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Sorry...board needs x amount of letters in a reply.

[Pennsboro32]

It has more to do with Ricky. He's the difference.

Yeah because you go from winning 4 races to 35 races in the matter of a 3 month off season.

[Highside Hustler25]

Surprised nobody has mentioned Anthony Buroughs. When the 2 hooked up, that's about the time he started dominating.