Kenseth WAY TO GO!!

[CIRF]

Now it's you that is making way too much sense, 1bbmft.

Add me to the list, along with A ron, who believe you're exactly right.

[mudslinger47]

This is my last post on this as it's gotten away from the main issue, but if your gonna run 36 weeks make ALL 36 races worth the same points to ALL drivers in the 36 races.

This will never happen but what if driver X wins 20 of the 26 races and has a 300 point lead on 2nd in points at that time. Now we start the chase and he blows up 25 laps in and gets 3 points in the first race, cuts a tire and gets 8 points in race 2, wrecks and gets 15 points in race 3 and is outta the chase. comes back in the final 7 races with a finish of 2 wins, and 5 top 5's and 3 top 10's BUT will finish 13th in the final points.

This is why the chase is a joke, go back to 36 races count the same or run the top 16 cars only after 26 races and run your chase. This way 4 drivers run the last race, and make it a 50 lap race at Bristol. I would pay $500 to see that one.

I think its been shown that the same people would be about in the same spots anyways...so in all actuallity, the Chase is pretty much the same....

[drano]

I think its been shown that the same people would be about in the same spots anyways...so in all actuallity, the Chase is pretty much the same....

Not really.......
Old points 1-Lagano 2-Harvick 3-JR 4-Brad k. 5-Truex 6-Hamlin 7-Johnson 8-Kenseth 9-Edwards 10-Kurt Busch 11-Gordon

New System 1-Gordon 2-Kyle Busch 3-Truex 4-Harvick 5-Edwards 6-Brad K. 7-Kurt Busch 8-Lagano 9-Hamlin 10-Newman 11-JR

[mudslinger47]

Not really.......
Old points 1-Lagano 2-Harvick 3-JR 4-Brad k. 5-Truex 6-Hamlin 7-Johnson 8-Kenseth 9-Edwards 10-Kurt Busch 11-Gordon

New System 1-Gordon 2-Kyle Busch 3-Truex 4-Harvick 5-Edwards 6-Brad K. 7-Kurt Busch 8-Lagano 9-Hamlin 10-Newman 11-JR

Like I said, about...most top ten... I like the chase because it promotes winning, not stroking... thats the long and the short of it.... and that is indesputable...

[drano]

Like I said, about...most top ten... I like the chase because it promotes winning, not stroking... thats the long and the short of it.... and that is indesputable...

You said people would be close to the same position and that is not the case for example Gordon now #1, in the old system he would be #11 and out of contention to win.

[TS FAN]

The problem for Gordon is that they do not race at Martinsville every week. Other than that, he is beating nobody. Based on performance, his winning the Championship. LOL, I will say no more.

[Clayton_Wetter]

The problem for Gordon is that they do not race at Martinsville every week. Other than that, he is beating nobody. Based on performance, his winning the Championship. LOL, I will say no more.

Then how about saying less? BTW Gordon won the title last year under the original system.

[TS FAN]

So now we award championships for previous years. It is a joke. He isn't going to win anyway. Not racing at Martinsville.

[A ron]

Mudslinger? The Chase promotes winning??? Kenseth and Johnson have more wins(5 each) than anyone in the top 8 other than Logano. Yet they are out. Logano is also on his way out unless he lucks up and Harvick wrecks next week. The leader has the least amount of wins and top 5's of anyone in the top 10. You may be able to present a valid argument for the Chase, but promoting winning is not one. Did anyone see how empty the stands were at Texas? There was one entire section that looked empty (wonder why).

[TS FAN]

Exactly. Nascar attempts to promote winning, but they have done just the opposite. I predict more adjustments after this season. LOL
i think what they are promoting is who will have the best luck in a short period of time.

[Clayton_Wetter]

So now we award championships for previous years. It is a joke. He isn't going to win anyway. Not racing at Martinsville.

Not an award, just stating statistical facts.

[TS FAN]

LOL, maybe they should start a woulda coulda shoulda award.

[A ron]

I agree TS. Based more on luck now than ever before and its influence has increased everytime they have changed it since 2004.

[mudslinger47]

Mudslinger? The Chase promotes winning??? Kenseth and Johnson have more wins(5 each) than anyone in the top 8 other than Logano. Yet they are out. Logano is also on his way out unless he lucks up and Harvick wrecks next week. The leader has the least amount of wins and top 5's of anyone in the top 10. You may be able to present a valid argument for the Chase, but promoting winning is not one. Did anyone see how empty the stands were at Texas? There was one entire section that looked empty (wonder why).

If you want to advance , the best way is to win...ask anyone trying to point their way in.

[CIRF]

Mudslinger? The Chase promotes winning??? Kenseth and Johnson have more wins(5 each) than anyone in the top 8 other than Logano. Yet they are out. Logano is also on his way out unless he lucks up and Harvick wrecks next week. The leader has the least amount of wins and top 5's of anyone in the top 10. You may be able to present a valid argument for the Chase, but promoting winning is not one. Did anyone see how empty the stands were at Texas? There was one entire section that looked empty (wonder why).

A ron, the message you're trying to convey is way too logical to be rationalized by the gimmick guru's. We've been told repeatedly that the reason for the completely empty grandstand sections is changing demographics and social attitudes.

It's just impossible for the lack of attendance and TV viewership to be a result of this uber exciting gimmick they aptly labelled "The Chase". A more correct label is "The Chase Mistake".

Let it go. You, I and over half the fandom of a decade ago are all wrong and the few that are left are absolutely right. Now there's a rationalization for you.

[jog49]

As sorry as I think NASCAR officials to be, I'm surprised they didn't go so far as trying to give Logano some points back that were lost because of this wreck. Big Bill has rolled over in his grave after observing how worthless his grandson is to the organization.

[A ron]

Mudslinger, I guess I'm wrong, winning is promoted...........for last 27.78% of the season. And that's my point exactly Stock Car Driver: The same dozen or so cars will be in the top 16 every year, so why even run the first 26 if they mean nothing after that?

[CIRF]

I only record and watch the road courses and now the chase races... the chase and points formats arent why there are no fans.

There aren't even 30 decent teams, (32 teams have started all the races) the field is filled with field fillers, if you can find the funding or your parents will pay you too can rent a ride in the top nascar series now. It will be rented rides and kids of Nascar drivers soon only.


From 14th in points on back except for Matt None of these drivers have hardly been visible this year much less being competitive..

The competition is so weak and shallow Kyle Busch missed all those races and still made the top 30...


14 Paul Menard 3 2208 -1874 -27 34 0 0 2 5 1 $3,953,470 15 1
15 Matt Kenseth 37 2197 -1885 -11 33 4 5 12 19 4 $5,834,025 13 -2
16 Clint Bowyer 7 2153 -1929 -44 34 0 0 2 12 2 $5,026,977 16 0
17 Aric Almirola 1 903 -3179 -1250 34 0 0 3 5 2 $4,915,974 17 0
18 Kasey Kahne 8 896 -3186 -7 34 1 0 3 10 3 $4,239,649 18 0
19 Greg Biffle 5 821 -3261 -75 34 0 0 3 4 0 $4,939,191 20 1
20 Kyle Larson 7 809 -3273 -12 33 0 0 1 9 5 $4,418,761 19 -1
21 Austin Dillon 5 778 -3304 -31 34 0 0 1 5 3 $4,732,192 21 0
22 Casey Mears 3 730 -3352 -48 34 0 0 0 1 3 $4,284,650 22 0
23 AJ Allmendinger 5 714 -3368 -16 34 2 0 0 3 3 $4,455,333 23 0
24 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 2 687 -3395 -27 34 0 0 1 3 2 $3,670,359 24 0
25 Sam Hornish Jr. 1 677 -3405 -10 34 0 0 0 3 2 $4,272,916 26 1
26 Danica Patrick 2 668 -3414 -9 34 0 0 0 2 4 $3,745,749 27 1
27 Tony Stewart 3 663 -3419 -5 34 0 0 0 3 5 $4,308,991 25 -2
28 David Ragan 3 657 -3425 -6 34 0 0 1 1 6 $4,346,273 28 0
29 Trevor Bayne 0 619 -3463 -38 34 0 0 0 2 3 $4,706,405 29 0
30 Justin Allgaier 1 553 -3529 -66 34 0 0 0 1 5 $3,761,911 30 0
31 Cole Whitt 3 526 -3556 -27 34 0 0 0 0 3 $3,554,039 31 0
32 David Gilliland 6 507 -3575 -19 34 0 0 0 0 3 $3,773,670 32 0
33 Alex Bowman 3 413 -3669 -94 33 0 0 0 0 6 $3,040,463 33 0
34 Brett Moffitt # 2 401 -3681 -12 29 0 0 0 1 1 $2,755,623 34 0
35 Matt DiBenedetto # 2 376 -3706 -25 31 0 0 0 0 1 $2,816,894 35 0
36 Michael Annett 1 372 -3710 -4 33 0 0 0 0 3 $2,997,960 36 0
37 Josh Wise 3 249 -3833 -123 23 0 0 0 1 4 $1,966,767 37 0
38 Jeb Burton # 0 211 -3871 -38 27 0 0 0 0 4 $2,111,257 38 0
39 Michael McDowell 0 202 -3880 -9 15 0 0 0 0 1 $1,600,295 39 0
40 Alex Kennedy 0 120 -3962 -82 13 0 0 0 0 0 $1,052,077 40 0
41 Reed Sorenson 1 74 -4008 -46 9 0 0 0 0 0 $911,256 41 0
42 Bobby Labonte 1 60 -4022 -14 4 0 0 0 0 1 $584,686 42 0
43 Michael Waltrip

You're correct scd, it's not only the points and championship format. That was a vast generalization. To specify all the missteps that have lead to the demise of NASCAR fandom would take weeks, months if not years. The chase is just the most visible of the missteps.

[mudslinger47]

Mudslinger, I guess I'm wrong, winning is promoted...........for last 27.78% of the season. And that's my point exactly Stock Car Driver: The same dozen or so cars will be in the top 16 every year, so why even run the first 26 if they mean nothing after that?

And it was pretty much the same under the old points system, always has, the cream rises to the top, so to speak...

[A ron]

Although I'm pleased with the final 4, I find it absurd that it all got decided based on a rain shower in the middle of a green flag pit cycle. Once again, I see that as the problem with the Chase. You tabulate points for the entire year and crazy instances average their way out of the picture. Manipulating outcomes of races, or downright getting lucky or unlucky are lessor factors that way. Rain shortening one race in a yearly total would only play a 2.78% role vs whatever (is there even a way to calculate it? I would say 33.33% for 8 drivers.) percentage role of yesterdays race. Makes no sense. I agree with Kurt Busch. It's time to do a survey on what fans wanna see.