Tiregate lawsuit?

[Barbecueboy]

the deal on the tires they did not fail for any substance abuse, should be case closed but tires lacked a chemical,nothing new here very possible after a few laps they had.but they ran a recheck on tires and they passed. this sounded fishy from the start it`s as if wrg wanted these tires to fail or the technicians are not properly trained.

Tin foil hats are adjustable and very comfortable if made correctly .........welcome to the club.......we welcome anyone.

[Cardirt0]

4M would be held in contempt of court for sending a dunce to the proceeding!

Who put you in charge of 4M... Dunce been called a lot of things Just dont care no more.. If it makes you a Big man do it...I know what i have done and were I have been and I am good with it...I know I am going home soon..1/2 the people on here will Still $uck when i do...Peace Love and the Best too you Cause You are what You are.....

[a25rjr]

This isn't NASCAR, the average track does not have a single full time employee. This will just add to the list of stuff that they will need to keep track of.

Right now we go by track scales, we always have with no issues. Cars come through and get weighed early in the night, and adjust if need be. I'm sure that is how it works at Eldora as well. Every car rolls across the same set of scales all week. Now tracks that might even be operating in the red weekly need to spring for another expense and more importantly someone needs to spend more time away from their job that likely pays the bills to have someone come inspect their scales on the time because a lawsuit completely ruined the system that has been working for 50+ years.

Same deal on the tires, all tires are sent to the same lab (this lab tests hundreds of tires annually) 32 tires were tested, 27 passed. Do you think the average track has the means to do anything more than seal the samples in an evidence bag or container? Do they need to fund their own lab on site? Make tires completely open? Not only do drivers currently want to spend less time prepping tires (as in many drivers are thrilled with the no maintenance tire rule at Eldora) but now they will have to groove, sipe, soak and whatever else their tires? I know I don't have time for that. As it is I won't be able to race more than 12-15 races a year because of the regular maintenance that goes on in between races, add in 8-10 more hours of tire prep and I just simply won't have time to do it at all -- and I'm sure there are a lot of drivers that feel the same way. That is the health risks aside which is an actual concern to me (and many others) -- maybe it isn't to you but we need everyone who currently supports racing and more to keep this sport going so our concerns are important even though others don't care about their health.

If they win this case it will be the end of dirt racing, what can't you sue for?

A driver punts you out of the way and the track does not put him to the back -- should said track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A rain delay forces a track to run on Sunday with less fans and cars and has to cut the purse but you already drove all the way to Michigan? Should the track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A driver goes through the tech and has too wide of a deck and gets DQed, should the driver sue and force the tech person to have eyes examined? Send the tape measure back to make sure it is 100% accurate?

In a lot of those situations it might be easy for a track to win, but it isn't easy for them to retain a lawyer, and all the costs associated with that. When you get this kind of stuff involved in dirt racing it is BAD. Anyone who thinks the demise of WRG would be a good thing is incorrect, your opinion is wrong. WRG is responsible for companies like Craftsman getting involved in dirt racing (if you don't think it has been beneficial just ask any WoO driver). They put on events like The World Finals, The Hell Tour, etc. which everyone loves. Do you think there is an organization out there that can just jump in and bring all the sponsors, and tracks together and put up that purse money guaranteed for all those Hell Tour shows? Not likely. Is there any other Sprint Tour out there that can just step in and bring the best Sprint drivers to Charlotte every Fall guaranteed (no, the only other possibilities owner is also stated in the lawsuit), same with the Dirtcar seires. It's bad. Very bad.

And the 50 year old system has been broken for 50 years and needs to be fixed. If you ever start racing and spend $2000 for a set of scales, you will see how frustrating it is. You know your scales are right but yet when you use the antiquated track scales you are 30 lbs light/heavy, so you have to ad or remove lead/fuel. Then your whole setup is off.

As far as the prep issue, it needs to be tweaked or if it cannot be, done away with. Theres way too many variables esp when a lot of money is on the line as well as drivers reputations.

[Barbecueboy]

This isn't NASCAR, the average track does not have a single full time employee. This will just add to the list of stuff that they will need to keep track of.

Right now we go by track scales, we always have with no issues. Cars come through and get weighed early in the night, and adjust if need be. I'm sure that is how it works at Eldora as well. Every car rolls across the same set of scales all week. Now tracks that might even be operating in the red weekly need to spring for another expense and more importantly someone needs to spend more time away from their job that likely pays the bills to have someone come inspect their scales on the time because a lawsuit completely ruined the system that has been working for 50+ years.

Same deal on the tires, all tires are sent to the same lab (this lab tests hundreds of tires annually) 32 tires were tested, 27 passed. Do you think the average track has the means to do anything more than seal the samples in an evidence bag or container? Do they need to fund their own lab on site? Make tires completely open? Not only do drivers currently want to spend less time prepping tires (as in many drivers are thrilled with the no maintenance tire rule at Eldora) but now they will have to groove, sipe, soak and whatever else their tires? I know I don't have time for that. As it is I won't be able to race more than 12-15 races a year because of the regular maintenance that goes on in between races, add in 8-10 more hours of tire prep and I just simply won't have time to do it at all -- and I'm sure there are a lot of drivers that feel the same way. That is the health risks aside which is an actual concern to me (and many others) -- maybe it isn't to you but we need everyone who currently supports racing and more to keep this sport going so our concerns are important even though others don't care about their health.

If they win this case it will be the end of dirt racing, what can't you sue for?

A driver punts you out of the way and the track does not put him to the back -- should said track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A rain delay forces a track to run on Sunday with less fans and cars and has to cut the purse but you already drove all the way to Michigan? Should the track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A driver goes through the tech and has too wide of a deck and gets DQed, should the driver sue and force the tech person to have eyes examined? Send the tape measure back to make sure it is 100% accurate?

In a lot of those situations it might be easy for a track to win, but it isn't easy for them to retain a lawyer, and all the costs associated with that. When you get this kind of stuff involved in dirt racing it is BAD. Anyone who thinks the demise of WRG would be a good thing is incorrect, your opinion is wrong. WRG is responsible for companies like Craftsman getting involved in dirt racing (if you don't think it has been beneficial just ask any WoO driver). They put on events like The World Finals, The Hell Tour, etc. which everyone loves. Do you think there is an organization out there that can just jump in and bring all the sponsors, and tracks together and put up that purse money guaranteed for all those Hell Tour shows? Not likely. Is there any other Sprint Tour out there that can just step in and bring the best Sprint drivers to Charlotte every Fall guaranteed (no, the only other possibilities owner is also stated in the lawsuit), same with the Dirtcar seires. It's bad. Very bad.

Then they ( woo, Lucas and whoever runs the sanctions )should get it right..............long gone are the days of trusting Sam or whomever just because they say we should.

Guys are smarter than that.

[Barbecueboy]

I guarantee if you get 50 people together those $2000 sets of scales and test the same car on all 50 you will have several different numbers. It is never going to be perfect. Regardless of what happens track scales will always need to be the rule, or we can't weigh cars and just let everyone get into a free for all of buying the most lightweight parts you can buy. I already have a set of scales and have seen a car roll off them and have a different weight at the track, you make adjustments and move on. If we start playing it any differently we will have each driver bringing their own set of scales to the track to prove their car is right -- I would say the current system works better.

If they start allowing people to prep tires I'm out, I simply don't have the time. I've already got a taste of what it takes to prep tires helping out friends this year and adding in more prep on top of that is going to eliminate a whole group of potential racers who just don't have that much time. 20-30 hours between races for maintenance is already crazy for a hobby. As the car counts continue to decline we need to be looking at ways to get more drivers to run, not alienate the few that we have now.

Thanks,
Jeff.

So you say if they go open and allow prep your out, but aren't you part of the same group that says everybody is doing it already anyway?( and if your not I apologize )

It's a very confusing to watch all you guys that say they all cheat get all huffy when the ones that say they don't try and defend their position........

[Cardirt0]

And the 50 year old system has been broken for 50 years and needs to be fixed. If you ever start racing and spend $2000 for a set of scales, you will see how frustrating it is. You know your scales are right but yet when you use the antiquated track scales you are 30 lbs light/heavy, so you have to ad or remove lead/fuel. Then your whole setup is off.

As far as the prep issue, it needs to be tweaked or if it cannot be, done away with. Theres way too many variables esp when a lot of money is on the line as well as drivers reputations.

Just fix it .. that be too easy...This was going too happen, The thing is WRG cant live with out the drivers,,, But the Drivers can Live with out WRG... One Group runs it for a wile, and then a new one comes in, then a new on comes in.....If UMP dies something will come in and replace it.. lets just hope its better.....If it dont work out the only dirt racing will be on a Game board....

[Barbecueboy]

Well then it is a good thing you have other hobbies, because if that is the case I expect racing to make a sharp decline in the coming years. If drivers start handing out lawsuits over anything that bothers them then I'm not going to be able to tech any of the cars in the series I run, I don't want to risk my house and my livelihood because someone can't accept they got DQed. Then I would either have to lose a case or hire a lawyer (to never be compensated back for it) at that point I'll just fold the series and move on, and I expect many others would do the same. Racing is awesome, but it isn't worth all the hard work that goes into making a series or a track successful for very little reward as is and then on top of that you have to worry about this kind of stuff now too.

Or you could just get it right and have good systems in place .........before you label someone a cheater.

And I have plenty of hobbies for what it's worth........if dirt racing goes down the tubes because guys have no other recourse than to take someone to court instead of having systems in place that are consistent, accurate and without reproach........then big time dirt racing needs to fail anyway.

It's only a matter of time.

[a25rjr]

I guarantee if you get 50 people together those $2000 sets of scales and test the same car on all 50 you will have several different numbers. It is never going to be perfect. Regardless of what happens track scales will always need to be the rule, or we can't weigh cars and just let everyone get into a free for all of buying the most lightweight parts you can buy. I already have a set of scales and have seen a car roll off them and have a different weight at the track, you make adjustments and move on. If we start playing it any differently we will have each driver bringing their own set of scales to the track to prove their car is right -- I would say the current system works better.

If they start allowing people to prep tires I'm out, I simply don't have the time. I've already got a taste of what it takes to prep tires helping out friends this year and adding in more prep on top of that is going to eliminate a whole group of potential racers who just don't have that much time. 20-30 hours between races for maintenance is already crazy for a hobby. As the car counts continue to decline we need to be looking at ways to get more drivers to run, not alienate the few that we have now.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Theres nothing wrong with tracks having older scales. Just get them checked annually or whatever your state laws are.

If someone doesn't want to spend 20 hours on their car during the week, they probly aren't too serious about it. And that's ok but they aren't going to get the results that the more serious racer does!

[Barbecueboy]

Well then it is a good thing you have other hobbies, because if that is the case I expect racing to make a sharp decline in the coming years. If drivers start handing out lawsuits over anything that bothers them then I'm not going to be able to tech any of the cars in the series I run, I don't want to risk my house and my livelihood because someone can't accept they got DQed. Then I would either have to lose a case or hire a lawyer (to never be compensated back for it) at that point I'll just fold the series and move on, and I expect many others would do the same. Racing is awesome, but it isn't worth all the hard work that goes into making a series or a track successful for very little reward as is and then on top of that you have to worry about this kind of stuff now too.

Instead of worrying about only yourself as a promoter or series official,You should be equally as concerned in labeling someone a cheater..............when you aren't really certain if they are or not.

[heinen81]

I don't understand all the idiotic "track scales prevail" comments. The law prevails, and if those scales are being used to determine pay, trade, freight or commerce... its law they are verified at specific intervals by the Department of Weights and Measure, or in Ohio's case, the Agricultural Department. I wont speak to the tire situation, but as far as the scales... if the state came in and measured them, and they were proven to be inaccurate... Bloomquist has this, and deservingly so! That would be like a farmer pulling up to a grain scale and being shorted thousands by an inaccurate scale, but saying that is ok because that sites scales prevail. Nope.

[ptown]

Can some of the Bloomquist supporters explain why three other cars weighed ok and his didn't?

[Cardirt0]

Then they ( woo, Lucas and whoever runs the sanctions )should get it right..............long gone are the days of trusting Sam or whomever just because they say we should.

Guys are smarter than that.

I have know Sam for a long time and he seems like a nice guy...But when you become the Joke at the track... Its time for a change... UMP has seen its better days...Look at the SN Not what they use too be...This maybe just what the Sport needed to clean it up.....UMP and a Racing Group should never have been Owned by the same people....

[heinen81]

Can some of the Bloomquist supporters explain why three other cars weighed ok and his didn't?

They may NOT have weighed "ok", but just not been at a point where it put them light. it's not uncommon for allot of cars to roll off the scale 50-100+lbs heavier than what the rules state for various reasons. Scott was always very close in that department, hence the times you see him drive under the tires and over the cushion before scaling, to pick up mud.

[Cardirt0]

Have you ever raced or been involved with racing on the other side of the fence before? I think it is custom all across the country. You weigh your car after warm ups, or whenever but sometime before the feature you weigh your car. If they scales are off by 11lb and it says you weigh 2989 instead of 2300 then it says the same for every single car. You adjust to track scales (as has been done since pretty much the beginning of racing) and you move on. It has literally always been that way in dirt racing, asphalt racing and any other racing requiring scales that isn't called F1 or NASCAR (aka has tons of money, and employees to manage this stuff).

Thanks,
Jeff.

You are Some what right, But this happened at a track that has the Money the F1 and NASCAR has.. Smoke ant Broke gots lots of money...Was a big money race and that means it should be run like a Big money race... Not a home town race track....

[heinen81]

Have you ever raced or been involved with racing on the other side of the fence before? I think it is custom all across the country. You weigh your car after warm ups, or whenever but sometime before the feature you weigh your car. If they scales are off by 11lb and it says you weigh 2989 instead of 2300 then it says the same for every single car. You adjust to track scales (as has been done since pretty much the beginning of racing) and you move on. It has literally always been that way in dirt racing, asphalt racing and any other racing requiring scales that isn't called F1 or NASCAR (aka has tons of money, and employees to manage this stuff).

Thanks,
Jeff.

Yes, I travel weekly with a 410 sprint car team. I 100% agree with what you are saying, esp the part about being done this way since the beginning of racing. That is the gentleman's look at how it is done and has been forever, unfortunately it is not the laws, and now the law is involved. I would have to say if we won $100,000 at the Kings Royal and came up light, I would ask to see the current State scale sticker, and if there wasn't one or it was expired... the car would not move until it was inspected and verified. I agree if the scale is off, it is off for everyone, but not everyone plays the weight so close to the limit. If they had the weight figured to within 10 lbs, and the scales could be off by over 30, how is that fair to people. "Hey, the rule is 2500, but it could go 50 lbs either way"?

[Bubstr]

There s no doubt litigation can't be good for racing in general. Will it be the end of dirt track racing? I don't think so. Not just by it's self, but it does add to the Cons in the Pro Con list of putting on races. Are we going to have to wait for the court case before we know who wins a race. It was bad enough, when we had to wait for the tire test. What happens when the non-cheating racer takes them to court for having rules imposed on him and not on the cheaters? There may never be another race won again with counter suits. If Bloomer wins the weight suit and I was in second place, would I sue the track and WRG for making me weigh 21 pounds more than Zero car, with their rules and practices. If the 5 win the tire dope part and I was a legal entrant. Would I sue because I was not allowed to dope my tires? Placing unfair handicap on honest competitors. The WRG, UMP and Eldora didn't do theirself any favors, when they wrote this vague, hard to enforce rule. They may deserve this mess, but we as race fans don't. There is going to be some stained reputations after this and not just the cheaters with their law suits.

Did you ever wonder, how much purse money, you would have to set aside, to cover a 16 million dollar law suit? Would it be anywhere near the amount that Hoosier gives them for point money?

Sure there are a lot of stretches here, but a lot of it could be avoided to start with, by being honest and above board with these tire rules.

[Cardirt0]

Can some of the Bloomquist supporters explain why three other cars weighed ok and his didn't?

I know of at lease 4 drivers that run 30 pounds over now just so this dont happen.. One of them said 30 pounds dont lose big pay day...He said motor has more horse power now and the 30 pounds dont slow the car down...

[Barbecueboy]

This isn't NASCAR, the average track does not have a single full time employee. This will just add to the list of stuff that they will need to keep track of.

Right now we go by track scales, we always have with no issues. Cars come through and get weighed early in the night, and adjust if need be. I'm sure that is how it works at Eldora as well. Every car rolls across the same set of scales all week. Now tracks that might even be operating in the red weekly need to spring for another expense and more importantly someone needs to spend more time away from their job that likely pays the bills to have someone come inspect their scales on the time because a lawsuit completely ruined the system that has been working for 50+ years.

Same deal on the tires, all tires are sent to the same lab (this lab tests hundreds of tires annually) 32 tires were tested, 27 passed. Do you think the average track has the means to do anything more than seal the samples in an evidence bag or container? Do they need to fund their own lab on site? Make tires completely open? Not only do drivers currently want to spend less time prepping tires (as in many drivers are thrilled with the no maintenance tire rule at Eldora) but now they will have to groove, sipe, soak and whatever else their tires? I know I don't have time for that. As it is I won't be able to race more than 12-15 races a year because of the regular maintenance that goes on in between races, add in 8-10 more hours of tire prep and I just simply won't have time to do it at all -- and I'm sure there are a lot of drivers that feel the same way. That is the health risks aside which is an actual concern to me (and many others) -- maybe it isn't to you but we need everyone who currently supports racing and more to keep this sport going so our concerns are important even though others don't care about their health.

If they win this case it will be the end of dirt racing, what can't you sue for?

A driver punts you out of the way and the track does not put him to the back -- should said track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A rain delay forces a track to run on Sunday with less fans and cars and has to cut the purse but you already drove all the way to Michigan? Should the track expect court documents on Monday morning?

A driver goes through the tech and has too wide of a deck and gets DQed, should the driver sue and force the tech person to have eyes examined? Send the tape measure back to make sure it is 100% accurate?

In a lot of those situations it might be easy for a track to win, but it isn't easy for them to retain a lawyer, and all the costs associated with that. When you get this kind of stuff involved in dirt racing it is BAD. Anyone who thinks the demise of WRG would be a good thing is incorrect, your opinion is wrong. WRG is responsible for companies like Craftsman getting involved in dirt racing (if you don't think it has been beneficial just ask any WoO driver). They put on events like The World Finals, The Hell Tour, etc. which everyone loves. Do you think there is an organization out there that can just jump in and bring all the sponsors, and tracks together and put up that purse money guaranteed for all those Hell Tour shows? Not likely. Is there any other Sprint Tour out there that can just step in and bring the best Sprint drivers to Charlotte every Fall guaranteed (no, the only other possibilities owner is also stated in the lawsuit), same with the Dirtcar seires. It's bad. Very bad.

You know as well as I do that the above post is purely fear mongoring........the weekend guy is not going to take you to court for sending him to the rear of the field for punting somebody.........nor is the weekend guy going to take you to court because his heads are illegal.

What has happened in the wrg case is that these drivers feel like the cheating charge against them is so egregious that they have no other recourse than to take it to court for resolution.

Don't really see why anybody is surprised.......... especially since there has been much discussion on this board and many others about where this was all going to end up anyway.

It's the tin foil hat thing , isn't it?

[ALLDIRT]

who says they have to any thing that's on private property plus its in the rule book when they sign in their entry fee they agree by those rules if one car out of 88 cars is light now the sales are wrong I don't think it works that way and if that track is sales are wrong then every track in the nation should have scales checked weekly how is that going to work out

Private property. you dont know much about a public business . When it comes to money
ask Tony if he pays taxes for Eldora. When it comes to business the law prevails . You cant
right your own laws. And scales in Ohio they must be certified, this i know for sure . I own
a salvage yard in Ohio, our scales are certified , and by law have to be. The lawyers and judges
will have a feild day with this $hit . If you think for a minute those scales dont have to certified for money , Your wrong. Remember when A,B,C, came in and took 50/50 money , and made them
pay or stop. Well so much for the track rules .Iif you think that they cant cry fowl, on those
scales your wrong . This kind of stuff is just now finding courts all over the country. The law dont
care how stupid you are. There is enough said.

[Barbecueboy]

I've never DQed a car from a series race first of all.

Second, if a car weighs light what exactly should be done? Should I buy a $2000 set of scales (using the approximately $200 that I currently have in the series account that isn't already accounted for needing to be spent on point fund, trophies, etc) and hire someone to set them up and make sure they are inspected by a state official after they are set up at each track we tour to? Or I could just do away with the weights completely and that way the guys with tons of money can buy brand new cars with light weight components and hit the track 500lbs lighter than the guys who scrape together enough cash to put a 2003 Harris chassis car together with an all steel 358. Of course half of my field consists of cars more similar to the latter example so I would be running races with $3-$4k purses and 10 cars (which would be worth it to the track?... not really) and so a grassroots racing series dies and the division goes back to the way it was before the series (struggling to hit 10 cars at the one local track that runs them). Or I could just put track scales are final in the rule book and all of the drivers who run the series can be smart enough to check their car on the scales before the race and adjust if necessary. You can guess which direction we went on that.

You won't find a mod series outside of the USMTS with the budget to do half of what you guys expect. So it is better not to have a mod series than it is to just deal with the situation of needing to check your car before the race because scales might be 10-20lbs off from track to track? If you say so, I'm sure I could find 36 drivers (out of the 36 drivers who have run my series this year) who would disagree.

Thanks,
Jeff.

In your long post about what ifs......You made several comments about losing your house .......or receiving court docs on Monday morning from something that was done on Saturday night.

So if you aren't worried about it, why bring it up as part of your argument?