Droop Rule and State of DLM Racing

[Illtsate32]

Its already become like nascar where as you got your super teams..nevermind the shoestring traveler theres guys that run the whole woo or lucas tours that will never have a chance to win a race...its what makes sports great is when the underdog at least has one...

[Hovlane]

Ok now that the dirt late model crisis has been solved, what solutions can we come up with for PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

[a25rjr]

Just put monoleafs back under them. One fixed eye and one fixed length shackle.

On certain tracks that would be an advantage. I know one car owner, a few years ago, won some big races against the best 4 bar cars!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

On certain tracks that would be an advantage. I know one car owner, a few years ago, won some big races against the best 4 bar cars!

I'd have to see it. I remember running second, 2 weeks in a row, to a better driver with a monoleaf car back in 2001. I wanted to kill myself. LOL

[fastford]

I never said take from the rich, I said make his cash less effective so he can't just buy a victory. You can do what you want to, but Bubstr is right, it will eventually kill itself and something else will hopefully spring up to take its place, maybe... In business they have found its much more cost effective to keep a customer than to try and win them back after they leave or quit. I'd rather see the same logic used on supers, just like they did in the mid 80's with the wedge, change the rules around some so money has less effect. I myself am not holding my breath, I've already found something else to do. I'm done with the discussion, but I hope Ray's attempt at bringing back a minuscule amount of sanity is fruitful and contagious.

so let me see if i understand your logic , lets just say for the sake of argument , joush richards and my self are of equal talent when it comes to driving , now we both show up to race and me , on my shoe string budget , now has a chance to be competitive with him and his unlimited budget because of rules ? ..... I feel the same concern as you guy,s about the survival of our sport , I just cant see where going backwards with the rules will help , JMO.......

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

so let me see if i understand your logic , lets just say for the sake of argument , joush richards and my self are of equal talent when it comes to driving , now we both show up to race and me , on my shoe string budget , now has a chance to be competitive with him and his unlimited budget because of rules ? ..... I feel the same concern as you guy,s about the survival of our sport , I just cant see where going backwards with the rules will help , JMO.......

We already went backwards once and it saved the sport. It can work again. But it has to be done the right way.

[old_wedge_nut]

We already went backwards once and it saved the sport. It can work again. But it has to be done the right way.

That sounds logical. Saving the sport is a different objective than making sure the havenots are competitive with the haves. But some of these responses sound like folks are looking for IROC on dirt.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That sounds logical. Saving the sport is a different objective than making sure the havenots are competitive with the haves. But some of these responses sound like folks are looking for IROC on dirt.

That's what the idiots in charge are trying to do now. And they are just making folks invent new necessary parts to spend money on.

[CageFaraday]

so let me see if i understand your logic , lets just say for the sake of argument , joush richards and my self are of equal talent when it comes to driving , now we both show up to race and me , on my shoe string budget , now has a chance to be competitive with him and his unlimited budget because of rules ? ..... I feel the same concern as you guy,s about the survival of our sport , I just cant see where going backwards with the rules will help , JMO.......

No, you obviously don't understand my logic, but I don't expect you too because you've made it abundantly clear you like the status quo. History shows what me and some others advocate for, it works, its proven, its a fact. The problem is there are a lot like you who want your cake and to eat it too. In the small body pre-hike days we had tons more diversity than we do now, much more innovation and experimentation. There were wide frames, narrow frames, over-rail & under-rail, a kaleidoscope of rear suspension designs and much much more diversity. The reason why was limited down force, which in turns limits traction, which in turn levels the playing field. It made it where you could match money against wits. Its hilarious to me the hellacious outrage displayed over a man taking away 1-1/2 inches of hike, you'd think he stole the needles from some heroin junkies.

That sounds logical. Saving the sport is a different objective than making sure the havenots are competitive with the haves. But some of these responses sound like folks are looking for IROC on dirt.

IROC is the furthest thing from my mind, that would be crate, which suck. Today its already IROC-esque, with everyone polishing on the same turd and a dozen chassis builders duplicating the same 2 basic designs, XR1 and Longhorn and all those with the exact same suspension. How much more IROC can they be than they are today anyway? Then you go to a race and 80% of the field is running the same car and most likely the same shock package, same tires. That is IROC.

[CIRF]

CIRF, By your current stance, a super LM has not ever existed.

Sure they have. I've seen plenty of pictures. They look much like every other dirt late model that ever existed but with some added wingage and/or plexiglass. Everything else is, in fact, a limited late model. Semantic's aside, it's your definition, not mine.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

No, you obviously don't understand my logic, but I don't expect you too because you've made it abundantly clear you like the status quo. History shows what me and some others advocate for, it works, its proven, its a fact. The problem is there are a lot like you who want your cake and to eat it too. In the small body pre-hike days we had tons more diversity than we do now, much more innovation and experimentation. There were wide frames, narrow frames, over-rail & under-rail, a kaleidoscope of rear suspension designs and much much more diversity. The reason why was limited down force, which in turns limits traction, which in turn levels the playing field. It made it where you could match money against wits. Its hilarious to me the hellacious outrage displayed over a man taking away 1-1/2 inches of hike, you'd think he stole the needles from some heroin junkies.

IROC is the furthest thing from my mind, that would be crate, which suck. Today its already IROC-esque, with everyone polishing on the same turd and a dozen chassis builders duplicating the same 2 basic designs, XR1 and Longhorn and all those with the exact same suspension. How much more IROC can they be than they are today anyway? Then you go to a race and 80% of the field is running the same car and most likely the same shock package, same tires. That is IROC.

I surprisingly really like these posts.

[Josh Bayko]

I don't believe there is any fix for more or less rules. They will make rules and the racer will find a way around them, until it implodes. Then there will be the next best thing coming out.

No rules was how Knoxville was in the 50s 60s. They started with a modified. Then it was OHV engines, then wings and larger tires. By the early 60s, they had sprint cars racing with sprint cars in desqise. I even seen a blown Hemi in a sprint car in 62. Trouble was, these cars couldn't run anywhere else. They needed some uniform rules or these cars couldn't run anywhere else. It's like Super Mods, If you want to race one, you better live close to NY.

The real problem is pricing the local guy out. With him a lot of his fans go away. Believe it or not, there was Miget races that got 50,000 fans in the seats of Soldier field in Chicago in the 50s. Tech priced out the little guy and took his fans with him. It will happen to DLMs sooner or later, but something will emerge as the next best thing. If you don't think it can or will happen, just talk to a few of Birkey or Brady Smith, or Daren Miller fans. They have trouble going to races since their driver isn't there.

You make a god point about rules, but supermodifieds do exist in a few other pockets around the country, though if you want to run non-wing, you had better live close to Oswego.

[Illtsate32]

I just seen a picture of a woo drivers meeting and 90% percent of the people in it have xr1 shirts on. I just dont think its a good thing too many sheep out there is that because of the rules set in place, I dont know but the market is pretty much cornered right now and a few people have the dlm world eating right out of their hand... not good imo I want competition in every aspect of our sport if this rule helps competition im all for it...

[hucktyson]

The current aero packages are allowing more and more power to be put down ... the more power you are making the more often it needs serviced. The purses promoters can afford to pay can't justify cars costs 110k plus .... it's not brain surgery.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The current aero packages are allowing more and more power to be put down ... the more power you are making the more often it needs serviced. The purses promoters can afford to pay can't justify cars costs 110k plus .... it's not brain surgery.

Yup. We have a better wedge car with better suspension.

[Bubstr]

I'm not sure that all the fans really want a even playing field. It would be very boring races, if everyone was the same. Thank goodness all racers aren't the same. We have passing, because some are faster. Some are smarter or wealthy enough to buy smart. Some polish their salesmanship and get sponsors. There is always a new way to skin the cat. Then there are the ones that can't and want rules to make them competitive. It takes more than just buying a car to make you competitive.

[fastford]

The current aero packages are allowing more and more power to be put down ... the more power you are making the more often it needs serviced. The purses promoters can afford to pay can't justify cars costs 110k plus .... it's not brain surgery.

but thats what the crate cares were suppose to do , limit the cost of the engines so like cagefaraday said , the have nots would have a chance , look how that turned out .......

[fastford]

Ok , we have people on her complaining about HP , some complain about safety , others complain about aero and expensive , and sometimes not so expensive gadgets that creates speed , sure sounds like were headed to nascar conditions to me , and no cagefaraday , im not just referring to ray,s hike rule , but where DLM,s are headed in general. rules are good if there fair across the board , but they have to be enforced and fair to all , even us have nots , Im done with this topic for now , because I can see where this argument could go on for ever , I personally dont see this "rays rule" ever getting of the ground , but time will tell........

[Illtsate32]

I'm not sure that all the fans really want a even playing field. It would be very boring races, if everyone was the same. Thank goodness all racers aren't the same. We have passing, because some are faster. Some are smarter or wealthy enough to buy smart. Some polish their salesmanship and get sponsors. There is always a new way to skin the cat. Then there are the ones that can't and want rules to make them competitive. It takes more than just buying a car to make you competitive.

I agree with you Bubs but so many people think that is all it takes..and thats why people can charge $50,000 for a chassis...people think if they buy it thats the magic wand to sucess and its driving up the costs of racing... I dont have the answers but at this point in time I dont think shaking things up will hurt...

[rcmaster]

when nascar engineers got involved our great sport started on a downhill spiral , you people yelling for no rules better like watching a handful of traveling drivers because the locals and the local late model tracks will be gone, the day of the individual building his own motors working on his equipment all night to get to go to races on sat. night over, countless test hours , data acquisition , and tie down rigs, our beloved sport RUINED !