Jay D!ckens Facebook post - Good Read on cost.

[fastford]

after reading post #16 , it seems to me he is calling for a spec class to replace SUPER LATE MODELS , I have no idea what will actually work , but this has already been tried.........

[Austin34471]

Everything Jay said is true.. everyone and their mother agrees with 100% of what he said. The issue is, everyone already knows this! Acknowledging that there is a problem without providing any ideas on how to fix said problem doesn't fix anything!

And that's the biggest problem.. no one knows how to fix it. The second biggest problem is: if someone did know how to fix it, 3/4 of the sport would whine at him/her until they gave up because no one agrees on anything. We will ride it out for another 5-10 years until it dies completely then find something else to do

[Burke1118]

Everything Jay said is true.. everyone and their mother agrees with 100% of what he said. The issue is, everyone already knows this! Acknowledging that there is a problem without providing any ideas on how to fix said problem doesn't fix anything! And that's the biggest problem.. no one knows how to fix it. The second biggest problem is: if someone did know how to fix it, 3/4 of the sport would whine at him/her until they gave up because no one agrees on anything. We will ride it out for another 5-10 years until it dies completely then find something else to do

Sad but true. Same could be said for America lol

[bleedblue55]

Every time this gets brought up the engine size of sprint cars classes are used as an example, 410, 360. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a top shelf complete 410 sprint motor cost about the same as a top of the line Durham, Clements, etc. for late models.

[Josh Bayko]

Seems to me that would be more regional talent. I consider local guy the guy that is running top 3 in weekly track points and races once a week. And maybe twice a week a couple times a month.

Norris is absolutely a Lenerville local. He has traveled a bit more this year than in years past, but he was at the Ville every week and won almost every feature and the point title.

[Josh Bayko]

Ok, now name a guy who is truly a "local" racer, not a regional guy, who has won on the Lucas or WoO tour in the last 3 years.

Second by Unzicker is nice, but it's still not a win, and it was on a 1/5th mile track...not exactly a straight up hp venue.

Michael Norris.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Jay (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ens, Pro Power, Durham and all the other top builders and parts suppliers for their motors, are just as much to blame as anyone right behind the aero and shock packages. I get that the cars have more grip than power now, so these builders charge a premium for every last bit of power they can make. Then the Nascar owned and funded teams come in and write checks for a dozen motors without balking at the price, which sets the market for every one else. Most others cant keep up with those costs, so they fold up. 20 years ago they made 700-800 horsepower for under 30k.... now you're telling me it should cost 60k for 100 hp more?? even with the introduction of CNC and other time and cost effective manufacturing processes? does a $5,500 crankshaft really cost any more to make than a $1,500 crankshaft? Does a $7000 block really cost any more to manufacture than a $2500 block? Do a set of 15k cylinder heads take any more to cast and machine than a $2000 set? No. The suppliers and builders are catering to the big money teams which set the market price for everyone else. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ens is just as guilty for how out of hand this got, when HP became king again, and they could charge what they wanted for it.

How many DLM teams are Nascar owned and funded?

[thexfactor0210]

Jeff Rine is also a weekly racer who won a WoO race at Port Royal last year. Kenny Pettyjohn won a WoO race a couple years ago at Volusia. AJ Diemel won the Lucas race at Oshkosh two years ago.

[xray]

In no other sport do the pros and amateurs intermingle on the appearance of a level playing field.

You don't try to play basketball against curry.
You don't try to out throw rodgers
You don't try to outgolf tiger, etc.

Wether that makes DLM racing better or worse is unknown, but it does not occur anywhere else.

[DGI]

I'm sure I'll get slammed by the know it all's on here but here's my 2 cents. I ran DLM's off and on in the midwest from 1999 to 2009. There would be 30-40 cars show up for a $3000 to win every single weekend and the racing from a driver and spectator stand point was phenomenal. A local guy could make the field and run up front with the likes of Bill Frye,Terry Phillips, Wendell Wallace, Al Purkey etc. Granted you weren't going to beat those much because they are great drivers but you could at least race with them. And if you look back at what all the teams had including the top tier teams the answer seems easy.

18 degree motors
double adjustable non canister shocks (probably have to be some sort of spec sealed shock now a day)
WRS D55 tires (one tire only)
Squared up bodies (that were teched all night long)


I'm sure there would have to be some tweaking but if you just implemented some common sense rules you could cut the cost in half in a matter of no time and your local and regional guys would get back into the DLM's.

[riddle28]

@xray

i would put all of racing under that umbrella not just DLM, privateer moto guys, small nascar teams, the list goes on that can compete with the "pros" when the situation arises

[fastford]

ASA tried this /\ /\ several years back , and they died quicker than if they would have just left the rules alone , they even made everyone use the same chevy engine , which did it for me . There has to be another way than just forming another spec or crate class....JMO.....I was referring to DGI,s post

[DGI]

I'm not saying crate or spec. Just maybe an 18 degree rule or even 13 degree rule. That alone would cut the motor cost in half compared to what the top guys are using. And the fans in the stands would be non the wiser when watching the race.

[play4kps]

If you want to fix dirt late model racing in a fast manner get the shock companies out of the game, and bring in a claimer rule!

[Matt49]

If you want to fix dirt late model racing in a fast manner get the shock companies out of the game, and bring in a claimer rule!

Claimer rules don't work...never have, never will.
Shocks are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the motors these days. The people screaming for shock rules are people that don't understand how to make shocks work. But they'll never want to give up all that power they can't hook up. Sad really but pure ignorance is what is killing this sport. People fear what they don't understand. And by "people" I mean racers AND the non-racer rule-makers.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Get the bodies back to late 1990s specs. Remove the spoiler. Consider decrease in tire size. Done.

Move on to cure for cancer.

[Josh Bayko]

Get the bodies back to late 1990s specs. Remove the spoiler. Consider decrease in tire size. Done.

Move on to cure for cancer.

They don't even have to go as far back as the late 90's. Just get em back to '05 and take 4" or spoiler off of them.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I don't get why so many people are stuck in the 90's. Sure the racing was probably better but face it. It's not coming back. Just like people want Nascar to race at North Wilksboro again. It's not going to happen people.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I don't get why so many people are stuck in the 90's. Sure the racing was probably better but face it. It's not coming back. Just like people want Nascar to race at North Wilksboro again. It's not going to happen people.

I am not stuck in the 90s. It was a much better body as far as downforce goes. And it was pre MD3 noses.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

They don't even have to go as far back as the late 90's. Just get em back to '05 and take 4" or spoiler off of them.

True. But, we might as well fix it with a big hammer cause the cars will creep back this way again. We need a wedge car to UMP car type enema for the sport.