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there are all kinds of dyno's...
Make America Godly Again
2 Chronicles 7:14
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I would be willing to bet that most all coilover springs have changed height/rate/frequency after 10 races. I do not have access to a smasher, I am just applying common sense. Many spring manufacturers(american foundry conmpany incorporated) claim that there springs are guranteed to not loose over a certain amount of height over the springs life. I am almost sure that these companies make a living off of the fact that almost nobody bothers to check there springs rates as they age. SWIFT
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Originally Posted by LRtireCHANGER
I would be willing to bet that most all coilover springs have changed height/rate/frequency after 10 races. I do not have access to a smasher, I am just applying common sense. Many spring manufacturers(american foundry conmpany incorporated) claim that there springs are guranteed to not loose over a certain amount of height over the springs life. I am almost sure that these companies make a living off of the fact that almost nobody bothers to check there springs rates as they age. SWIFT
Of course they have changed. If the free height changes 0.1" and all the other values change accordingly, do we care and why? That's the question.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
Moler - 1
Eldora - 2
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Maybe Mastersbilt can explain it to me better. How much does it really matter if your smashing and resetting springs each night/week for track conditions or different track? So it now takes 1/8 of a turn more to get your numbers where you want them. Maybe if your running weekly at the same track and do not have to adjust anything then yes over time I could see where it might catch up to you.
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Originally Posted by Mopar DLM
Maybe Mastersbilt can explain it to me better. How much does it really matter if your smashing and resetting springs each night/week for track conditions or different track? So it now takes 1/8 of a turn more to get your numbers where you want them. Maybe if your running weekly at the same track and do not have to adjust anything then yes over time I could see where it might catch up to you.
My argument is it doesn't matter. Good springs, that are designed correctly, are not really wear items. When you notice a significant change in height or rate, or a spring is bent, you need to replace it. Otherwise, it is fine.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
Moler - 1
Eldora - 2
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all springs have a cycle life , I will use a valve spring for example , I have had valve springs hold there specs for a long time , then all of a sudden they will drop like 20lbs seat pressure , after that , they drop rapidly , your talking about thousands and thousands of cycles here , it would take a bunch of races for a coil suspension spring to do this , unless poor manufacturing is involved .....
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Originally Posted by fastford
all springs have a cycle life , I will use a valve spring for example , I have had valve springs hold there specs for a long time , then all of a sudden they will drop like 20lbs seat pressure , after that , they drop rapidly , your talking about thousands and thousands of cycles here , it would take a bunch of races for a coil suspension spring to do this , unless poor manufacturing is involved .....
You can't live long enough to cycle a suspension spring like a valve spring. You are correct that "infinite design life" isn't really infinite, but 2 max travels per lap vs thousands is the key math here.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
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Eldora - 2
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What machine would test the rebound rate, Frank/Bubba is referring to?
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Originally Posted by ZERO25
What machine would test the rebound rate, Frank/Bubba is referring to?
You would need to fixture the spring to a plate and impact it with a dropped mass. Then you need a high speed camera to count the oscillations over time. Any type of contacting displacement transducer could affect the frequency and require a way to calculate the effect. If the resistance is low enough, compared to the springs' rate, it can be ignored.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
Moler - 1
Eldora - 2
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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer
You can't live long enough to cycle a suspension spring like a valve spring. You are correct that "infinite design life" isn't really infinite, but 2 max travels per lap vs thousands is the key math here.
I agree , I guess one could confidently say a suspension spring will never wear out , only thing is , do you think leaving a continuous load on a spring will eventually lower the spring rate with no cycles ?
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Originally Posted by fastford
I agree , I guess one could confidently say a suspension spring will never wear out , only thing is , do you think leaving a continuous load on a spring will eventually lower the spring rate with no cycles ?
If it's poorly designed, you are close to binding it, or it's heated enough, the coil spacing will be permanently altered. That will affect the rate.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
Moler - 1
Eldora - 2
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How concerned should be be if the springs are losing their rebound rate? Sounds like average Joe couldnt test these springs and we're left to the manufacturers recommendations!
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Originally Posted by ZERO25
How concerned should be be if the springs are losing their rebound rate? Sounds like average Joe couldnt test these springs and we're left to the manufacturers recommendations!
As I've said, they cannot lose this magical "rebound rate" without losing other measurables. Taking the word of salesmen will always cost you money
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
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Does Bubba Gale have the same credibility issues?
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Originally Posted by ZERO25
Does Bubba Gale have the same credibility issues?
If he's trying to dispute the laws of physics, yes. All the variables of frequency have been laid out from the first page.
Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 04-08-2023 at 04:16 PM.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -3
Atomic - 2
Moler - 1
Eldora - 2
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Originally Posted by fastford
all springs have a cycle life , I will use a valve spring for example , I have had valve springs hold there specs for a long time , then all of a sudden they will drop like 20lbs seat pressure , after that , they drop rapidly , your talking about thousands and thousands of cycles here , it would take a bunch of races for a coil suspension spring to do this , unless poor manufacturing is involved .....
I'm imagining a suspension spring in place of a valve spring with a proportionate size.
A valve spring being around 2" tall and around 1.55 in diameter, scaled up a percentage to fit between the axle and frame. Say 500 percent?
If you also scaled up the valve, lifter, keepers, retainers, ect... including what it asked to do, basically a gigantic valve spring and the supplied the same Cycles/time/heat I think you'd find the same thing happening.
A spring is a spring....Valve springs just live much harder lives but they will both eventually suffer the same fatigue.
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some valve springs hold there pressure but will break when cycled out , others just loose pressure , and loose it quick when cycled out , guess you will never really know what happens to a spring in the suspension case .
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