Lucas Oil

[kidrock]

Fail to properly address a close finish before it happened.

So are you saying the drivers have never been told how they would determine a winner under these circumstances?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So are you saying the drivers have never been told how they would determine a winner under these circumstances?

Their process is horribly flawed. It became too obvious, finally. They might as well flip a coin if the finish is within .008 second.

Just because you apply computing to something, that alone does nothing to improve accuracy or integrity to the process. We've all heard of garbage in, garbage out.

[kidrock]

Their process is horribly flawed. It became too obvious, finally. They might as well flip a coin if the finish is within .008 second.

Just because you apply computing to something, that alone does nothing to improve accuracy or integrity to the process. We've all heard of garbage in, garbage out.

Ok but it's not like they did something nefarious.

I'm more curious did the drivers know how a race would be determined if that situation ever came up and if they did that's really how that matters. I mean it's their money on the line and some do this for a living.

[jog49]

But . . . . if the scoring loop is not buried in exactly the right place . . . . . . . the only visual the drivers have is the flag stand and the flagman.

[Josh Bayko]

It’s highly unlikely that any of these scoring loops at dirt tracks are at an exact 90 degree angle across the track. Any deviation from that is why these close finishes often have the wrong actual winner.

[jog49]

Yep! I'm surprised the deer hunting crowd hasn't advocated for a trail cam yet.

[Highside Hustler25]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This !!!!!

[TS FAN]

At the end of the day, all I can say is great race. Two outstanding drivers put on a show. My bottom line would be what Hudson said. He slipped on the last lap and let Bobby get to him and that is what happened. Not that Hudson wasn't upset losing the race.

It went from a clear win to almost a coin flip. Congrats again to both drivers who are at the top of the sport along with JD, and Ricky.

[jog49]

"What's wrong with making the finish line in the exact same location of the timing and scoring loop."

Apparently, that's where it was, and in this day of technology, it's just plain stupid.

Why not put the timing and scoring loop at the finish line that has been used since the beginning of time? The official start of a race is at the flag so why isn't the finish of a race at the same place? What other form of racing, from point A to point B uses a transponder to determine a winner? NASA isn't looking to hire the people who made this decision and the rumor mill says the guy that buried the scoring loop was high as a kite!

[mnwriter]

So here is part of the equation none of you think about obviously.

If you race more than one class of cars each style of car has the transponder in a different position based on the series/sanction rules. The track in question typically has the modified as their main class. Maybe they figured the distance of standard mounting location of the transponder to the flag stand so the nose of the car crosse the flag stand at the same time as the transponder.

Plus even though they dictate location of transponders on all cars for the late models per Lucas rule book I would bet it doesn’t indicate tip of nose to transponder distance so if you look at photos O’Neils nose to front tire looks longer than pierce etc. they are all built different so the transponder is actually the best way to handle the scoring.

Knowing how the connections are in waterproof boxes for the loop to the scoring tower you don’t have room at the cemented in flag stands at most tracks to be able to put the loop in the same place as the stand anyway so most tracks found what they figured would be the best average distance for their classes to put the loop so it was close to triggering as the cars crossed the finish line.

[jog49]

You made every bit of that story up, didn't you?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Mnwriter,

You know what's in the Lucas rules? Tip of nose from front wheel center. You know why? That is a performance advantage. You know what isn't in the rules? Transponder location. It's a verbally given general location on the chassis that isn't in exactly the same point on all cars when referencing the tires or any other part of concern.

[over4T]

We got bit this past weekend by the transponder location. Our touring Pro Stock group is like most in that location is vague. In our qualifier we took 4th according to the transponder and 5th by less than O'Neal did over Pierce. Competition director came over and talked to both of us after we scaled to work things out with us and our friend. We agreed to move our transponder back a few inches and took the 5th. No big deal? Well our group takes top 4 from 2 heats and complete redraw for those 8 for the main. Guy we "beat" drew a 3 and ended up finishing a strong second. We started 9th and pretty much stayed back there until the last corner when we got banged for 11th. Didn't exactly make us happy but we're just hobby racers, If we did it to put meat on the table I'd feel different.

[Jim11h]

This is why we'll eventually see camera's calling balls and strikes. Things pretty dead when got 7 pages for this nonsense. Most tracks start finish line is one side or other of flag stand and been this way for decades. Scoring tower needs direct sight of line to score close races back before we allowed technology to over take. I will say the most ironic thing of all this is almost every one was swinging from lucas short hairs and now they're doing an about-face. If the rocket would of won all the longhorn chassis hoes would be squealing foul, but then again it was pierce so we see their own division and attack of transponder that they'll download app and watch for results as gospel on other days ending in Y

[over4T]

Also broke a pretty nice little streak we had going; two wins and 5 other top threes in our last 7 races at tracks in 3 states. Time to get with it and start on another streak hopefully. The eternal optimism of racers in an often frustrating sport. Over 60 years doing this and it never gets any easier.

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Jim11h

^^^^
Couldn’t agree with you more-spot on.
7 pages and the only team effected was Rocket1- have they complained?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

This is why we'll eventually see camera's calling balls and strikes. Things pretty dead when got 7 pages for this nonsense. Most tracks start finish line is one side or other of flag stand and been this way for decades. Scoring tower needs direct sight of line to score close races back before we allowed technology to over take. I will say the most ironic thing of all this is almost every one was swinging from lucas short hairs and now they're doing an about-face. If the rocket would of won all the longhorn chassis hoes would be squealing foul, but then again it was pierce so we see their own division and attack of transponder that they'll download app and watch for results as gospel on other days ending in Y

You certainly aren't speaking about my perspective. But, anytime we paint with a wide brush, we are bound to get outside the lines. The issue is they do it differently than races you bet on and differently than NASCAR does it, and differently than anyone of ordinary knowledge would perceive it should be done.

They assume everything that has to be setup perfectly for their method to work, is setup perfectly. We know that is far from the case, and why their method is not commonly used outside of our often-misguided sport.

[Pennsboro32]

It's a good thing you can't legally bet on DLM racing.

[Jim11h]

Let's be realistic, yes it's the 2000s and everyone thinks everything should be perfect, but it clearly isn't. It was a great race and for that everyone should be thankful but they can't be. Hundreds of millions in other sports are decided by humans which we know make errors and in some cases can be bought. Our podunk system works pretty good for amt invested. Boxing judged by 3 people for 10s of millions if not a two or ko. Football by referee's determining rule of a catch, etc........gotta look at broad spectrum

[Buford.Justice]

What's to stop an illegal transponder from being activated before the finish line at the front of the car if it's hidden well and then changed back to the legal trans after the race with a hidden switch.

Or even a remote not even on the car?

What do you think Masters?

Take note innovators!