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Thread: Frank Simonetti

  1. #1
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    Default Frank Simonetti

    In a seminar at the pri, he stated a coilover spring should be replaced every 20 races, because they lose their frequency not their rate. Agree or disagree?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO25 View Post
    In a seminar at the pri, he stated a coilover spring should be replaced every 20 races, because they lose their frequency not their rate. Agree or disagree?
    The natural frequency of a spring can be calculated by the equation f= √(k/m)/0.25

    K is the spring rate
    m is the mass of the spring

    If the spring didn't lose weight or rate, it didn't change frequency

    You can really get down in the weeds about how spring spacing, modulus of elasticity, and diameters of wire and the wound diameter all affect mass and rate. But again, if mass and rate are not changed, frequency is not changed.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 02-17-2023 at 12:49 PM.
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  3. #3
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    I messed the formula up the first time, I used spring mass system instead of just a spring.
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  4. #4
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    I got a question:

    1. Where does frank work?
    2. What does frank sell?

    That's a rhetorical question

  5. #5
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    Default

    motorsports director swift springs

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stempy View Post
    motorsports director swift springs
    Aka Chief spring salesman
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  7. #7
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    I asked him to PROVE to me the springs wear out, change rate, blah blah blah along with actual data of spring rebound rate and compression rate differences. He asked to me call him stating it was too much for the forum, I agreed, I called, he never answered or replied to emails after several attempts.

    I can't say he's right or wrong, I just wanted some sort of data....just for my own personal curiosity and knowledge. Lots of people throw stuff around and make buzz words out of it like "spring hysteria" but I reserve opinions until I see some data...I never got it, never seen it.

    I wasn't even expecting millions of dollars of R@D data either, I figured some sort of generic brochure data could be sent out a "proof" of why they are better than everyone else.
    Later, I figured out he was sales.....figures.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizardracing View Post
    I asked him to PROVE to me the springs wear out, change rate, blah blah blah along with actual data of spring rebound rate and compression rate differences. He asked to me call him stating it was too much for the forum, I agreed, I called, he never answered or replied to emails after several attempts.

    I can't say he's right or wrong, I just wanted some sort of data....just for my own personal curiosity and knowledge. Lots of people throw stuff around and make buzz words out of it like "spring hysteria" but I reserve opinions until I see some data...I never got it, never seen it.

    I wasn't even expecting millions of dollars of R@D data either, I figured some sort of generic brochure data could be sent out a "proof" of why they are better than everyone else.
    Later, I figured out he was sales.....figures.
    They may change. However, rate or mass has to change. Equations that correctly describe physics tell you the variables.
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  9. #9
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    Frank is at Swift now? Nice I delt with him at Eibach. Seemed like a nice enough guy, but a salesman!!
    I think there should be lifeguards in the genepool.

  10. #10
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    According to the video, him and Bubba Gale have done some extensive testing!

  11. #11
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    Change your springs every week, get new strange axles and a new shock brand every month and tell me how expensive racing is.

    Don't forget the new Longhorn chassis every 8 shows either.
    Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 02-22-2023 at 06:31 PM.
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  12. #12
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    He will gladly tell you how smart he is!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast3 View Post
    He will gladly tell you how smart he is!
    We spoke with him at a track a couple years back and his quote was something to the effect of "They couldn't get a budget together" talking about going to work for a different spring company. Seems a bit slimy to me from the one time i talked to him. As pointed out he's a salesman anything to sell another spring

  14. #14
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    I bought my first swift springs in 2012 , they were just becoming known in the dirt track world , and if I remember correctly , they guaranteed there spring to stay within one percent for long as you owned it , but any way , dont know this frank fellow , but this goes against their original claims ,

  15. #15
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    Free spring Frank!!

  16. #16

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    i have no idea about frank or his claims but i do have a lot of personal experience with springs. i work in the off-road industry (atv / utv) and do a lot of professional tuning work with springs and shocks.

    i can definitely 100% feel the difference between some different manufacturers of springs of the same rate. Some springs will feel flat and less responsive, others will react much quicker and feel much more springy so to say. like they are capable of storing more or less energy.

    This is especially true when an OEM will be testing with a good aftermarket spring and then go to a less costly production type oem spring. that will often require a damping change.

    the math on rate and frequency and what not is absolutely fact. no getting over that. but my professional opinion is there is some vodoo in springs.

    ive always felt on car sized stuff its much more difficult to feel that as you are not as connected, i think as long as you stick with a good reputable mfg you should be able to tune any of them up good if they are the proper spring for the job

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw4j View Post
    i have no idea about frank or his claims but i do have a lot of personal experience with springs. i work in the off-road industry (atv / utv) and do a lot of professional tuning work with springs and shocks.

    i can definitely 100% feel the difference between some different manufacturers of springs of the same rate. Some springs will feel flat and less responsive, others will react much quicker and feel much more springy so to say. like they are capable of storing more or less energy.

    This is especially true when an OEM will be testing with a good aftermarket spring and then go to a less costly production type oem spring. that will often require a damping change.

    the math on rate and frequency and what not is absolutely fact. no getting over that. but my professional opinion is there is some vodoo in springs.

    ive always felt on car sized stuff its much more difficult to feel that as you are not as connected, i think as long as you stick with a good reputable mfg you should be able to tune any of them up good if they are the proper spring for the job
    After watching the video again, I believe you are correct. He used the word frequency but with his hand motion, i believe he was referring to the rebound energy of the spring. He said springs dont usually lose their compression rate just their rebound rate.(paraphrased)

  18. #18
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    Spring surge is going to effect rebound rate/time way more then the spring being used is.

  19. #19
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw4j View Post
    i have no idea about frank or his claims but i do have a lot of personal experience with springs. i work in the off-road industry (atv / utv) and do a lot of professional tuning work with springs and shocks. i can definitely 100% feel the difference between some different manufacturers of springs of the same rate. Some springs will feel flat and less responsive, others will react much quicker and feel much more springy so to say. like they are capable of storing more or less energy. This is especially true when an OEM will be testing with a good aftermarket spring and then go to a less costly production type oem spring. that will often require a damping change. the math on rate and frequency and what not is absolutely fact. no getting over that. but my professional opinion is there is some vodoo in springs. ive always felt on car sized stuff its much more difficult to feel that as you are not as connected, i think as long as you stick with a good reputable mfg you should be able to tune any of them up good if they are the proper spring for the job
    Are we talking seat of pants feel or actual dyno data?

  20. #20

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    always seat of the pants for tuning. that's not what dynos are for.

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