Calipers

[dukeyyyyy]

Big calipers in the back and smalls in the front, or vice versa? Or does it really make a difference?

[TheJet-09]

I assume you're talking actual body size but should technically be looking at piston size. I don't think it's wise to mix caliper size front to rear, but maybe it's not unheard of.

[dukeyyyyy]

it's not unheard of when you're balling on a budget lol. the 2 rears went out and i have spares to replace them but not the same ones that came off. The fronts now have bigger pistons than the rears. Didnt know which way is better

[TheJet-09]

Completely understood, I'm in the same boat...wrecked in qualifying once and ran a 100 lap feature with only the LF and LR calipers. Didn't stop well but had an interesting effect! The bigger piston calipers "should" generate more clamping force which would typically be warranted on the rear of a dirt car, not the front. You might be able to compensate with the balance bar (adjuster) but it's just that...compensating. I've thought of running a smaller caliper on the RF.

[collateralDamage]

dukeyyyy, i would say it definitely does make a difference (piston size) being different front to rear.

years ago, you tighten the hell out of the car all the time for forward drive and put the big calipers on the rear so when you stomp the pedal the car pitches and turns.

the trend over the last couple of years seems to be like jet said: running 1.75 piston calipers on 3 corners with a 1.375 piston on the RF. you get a "throttled" 3 wheel brake effect, leading the front end into the corner as you massage the brake and gas pedals.

Recently, since front end traction is getting the most attention and we now don't need as much roll-steer, etc. to turn the car (actually use the steering wheel to drive the car), I'm not so sure big calipers on the front aren't the way to go. ????

just thinking out loud.....

[Matt49]

Nothing wrong with thinking out loud...
Here's me thinking out loud: If your car won't turn by using that big round thing in front of you, it is too tight. Now I know what somebody is going to say/think, "in some track conditions, you need all rear brake or RF shut off to turn the car." Again, I say your car is too tight and you're using the brakes as a crutch. The fact is, it doesn't make much sense to have a setup for hot laps so we just use these crutches because it's a quick fix for a track condition we're not going to see much of. But if you were going to race in those conditions you should be doing something to fix corner entry that doesn't involve donkey-kicking the brakes.

[hucktyson]

Matt as usual your talking crate racing, when you have 400 hp you can make a car free enough for it to rotate by casually turning the wheel and still have plenty of drive coming off. Watch the top guys they throw the dog fuk out of that car !!! They throw it that hard because if they don't the car won't turn and if they don't have that kind of side bite and drive in the car it won't come off the corner . I having being jacing off spiders for years thinking I could get a car to drive like a Cadillac on the way to get grocerys and still be fast but it's just not reality . The top guys are UP ON THE FUKING WHEEL !!! Watching the heats and features at eldora finally woke me up to what my problem is ..... Driving like a bitc h !! A car that has enough drive coming off isn't rotating unless you rotate the dam thing ... I guarantee if I don't run well at PRP it will not be because I didn't run hard enough.

[Matt49]

Matt as usual your talking crate racing, when you have 400 hp you can make a car free enough for it to rotate by casually turning the wheel and still have plenty of drive coming off. Watch the top guys they throw the dog fuk out of that car !!! They throw it that hard because if they don't the car won't turn and if they don't have that kind of side bite and drive in the car it won't come off the corner . I having being jacing off spiders for years thinking I could get a car to drive like a Cadillac on the way to get grocerys and still be fast but it's just not reality . The top guys are UP ON THE FUKING WHEEL !!! Watching the heats and features at eldora finally woke me up to what my problem is ..... Driving like a bitc h !! A car that has enough drive coming off isn't rotating unless you rotate the dam thing ... I guarantee if I don't run well at PRP it will not be because I didn't run hard enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTa2oJfV26Y
Here is a video of Jimmy Owens going around Eldora. Qualifying, heat race, and feature. Throughout the entire thing, I don't see anything that resembles "throwing" the car into the corner. Sometimes he doesn't even turn the wheel to the left at all. And if I had to describe his entry when he does turn the wheel to the left I would describe it as "casually turning the wheel". Eldora is a momentum race track so if you're in search of forward bite there it is because you're killing your momentum somewhere before corner exit.
I also fail to see any correlation between a car that doesn't want to rotate and car that has a ton of drive. You can easily have one without the other and vice versa. In fact, I would say that if you are having to FORCE the car to rotate because it won't do it easily, you've consequently killed any chance at having forward drive. This is the classic tight in/loose off condition that people fight so often and I would venture to say you may be fighting it yourself.

[hucktyson]

Your right davensnort and pierce never once turned their wheel to the right .... The right rear stays outside the right front as viewed top down . Please come to prp and demonstrate to me this asphalt driving style you think these guys use .... The front ends have improved but they are still no where near capable of rotating the center without having the rr outside the rf I'm not talking 1980's sideways ...

[hucktyson]

Come to think of it Boggs , pierce , davensnort and those guys know for charging hard all drive like ms Daisey is in the car with them ....

[Matt49]

I never said anything about an asphalt driving style which would be just turning the wheel to the left all the way around the corner.
You said that the car must be "thrown hard" into the corner and cannot be setup in such a way that allows it to be turned with a casual turn of the wheel or it won't get off the corner.
I showed a very clear video that contradicts that and demonstrates a top driver (I'm assuming you would include Owens in that category) that has his car so free for corner entry that he sometimes doesn't even have to turn left to get it rotated. The only time he EVER turned the wheel more than 5 degrees left was when he plowed the RR into the cushion.
Your argument seems to be that the only way you can get a car to have drive off the corner is to set it up so tight on entry that it needs be just to be man-handled to get it to turn. That simply isn't true. It is just the opposite. A car that is tight on entry will almost always be free on exit and not have any forward bite.

And I stand by my statement that a properly balanced car for the track conditions will always be faster than one that needs to use a ton of unbalanced braking to get it to turn (that's what the topic of this thread is about: brakes).

[hucktyson]

Throwing a car in doesn't necessarily mean stomping on the brake pedal ...

[billetbirdcage]

Billet says: WOW

[Matt49]

Throwing a car in doesn't necessarily mean stomping on the brake pedal ...

I give up...

[swartzman]

Boggs is driving prp about as close to asphalt as your going to get this year.

[swartzman]

Jet09 the only reason at all your car would have been driving funny was because you have never driven a car with just 3 wheel brakes on it before.. I can assure you just having one brake caliper on the left rear did not have one thing to do with it unless you have a unlocking rearend..

[kaij15]

I guess I need to get tickets to the Dream. Apparently observing heat/features at Eldora speedway has turned this mans life around. I just hope attending in June isn't to late for me. Way to kill a topic hucktyson.... On the flip side of moronic.... Anyone run there brakes Left/Right versus Front/Rear?

[Matt49]

Jet09 the only reason at all your car would have been driving funny was because you have never driven a car with just 3 wheel brakes on it before.. I can assure you just having one brake caliper on the left rear did not have one thing to do with it unless you have a unlocking rearend..

Assuming both rear calipers are clamped to the axle tube. If one or both were on the birdcage, this could definitely cause some strange things besides the obvious 50% reduction in rear brake.

[fastford]

I guess I need to get tickets to the Dream. Apparently observing heat/features at Eldora speedway has turned this mans life around. I just hope attending in June isn't to late for me. Way to kill a topic hucktyson.... On the flip side of moronic.... Anyone run there brakes Left/Right versus Front/Rear?

I don't have a onboard adjuster per say to adjust left to right, but when im on the left rear brake floater, I use a big piston caliper and very aggressive pads on left side, which could be called adjusting left to right, just cant change it on track.

[swartzman]

Your not going to find anybody who has a adjustable left to right brake system. What you will find is people do have a adjustable right front brake. I'm not saying someone may have something like that but no one I am aware of.