woo schedule

[W2Racing09]

Your first sentence is way out of line. Are you serious? First and fore most, your bigger teams don't need the money MORE!!!!!! And I never mentioned once about paying for a double show. You of all people should have figured out what I said! It would be 2 different series. And both would make better racing for the fans.

The top teams who make their living off racing, the bottom teams that would be running your newly created starter series tend to be the ones who don't really need it as much (a point underlined by the fact that they continue to exist now, presumably far into the red). Many of those drivers have backers who are extremely loaded or very rich families.

Its drivers like Bloomquist, Owens, Davenport, Clanton, Shirley, etc. who make their living being race car drivers and don't have a big side business to support their operation with.

If you think the drivers would all run the same series continuously with double the amount of competition as before with the same amount of money on the line you are crazy. How many times do you think someone like Jonathan Davenport or Shane Clanton are going to continue to unload their cars getting 2-3 wins per season and going thousands of dollars into the red to finish 4th or 5th in points paying $25,000? If you had all the drivers on one series you would certainly need increased payouts (At the very least $15,000 to win, $10,000 for 2nd, $7,500 for 3rd and $1,200 to start before series bonus money).

[W2Racing09]

it can't really be 5 to 7 if you are counting the top 10 only.......but, I guess it can be if you are making a point that Lucas is better.

My top ten would look closer to 7/3 Lucas.......with a few that are very close.

Why would it be top 10 only if each series has 12 or more guys following?

Thanks,
Jeff.

[plunks7]

None of Moyer Jr's wins were with the WoO (unless you count UMP at Volusia which is a Lucas+WoO type of field). If you were only counting touring wins then those bottom six on the LOLMDS would only have two wins combined (Lanigan and Owens each have one).

LMFAO, C'MON man. Did he pull a page or 2 out of his Dads book? Okay we had our say. We know how each other feel about each series. Lets move on!!!!

[W2Racing09]

You are making my argument of " massaging the numbers to fit your stance" very well for me........just sayin

What? I counted the 3 Tucson wins for the CBR cars as well? If I wanted to "massage the numbers" I would have responded to him saying Clanton is a hack by saying that 7th to 12th in points on the LOLMDS has 2 wins total and Clanton has 7 which is exactly 3.5 time more wins than the entire bottom half of the "very deep" LOLMDS roster. Instead I said the bottom half of the LOLMDS series has 5 total wins (including a bunch of regional and local starts as stated in plain text) and compared that to several WoO drivers who have more by themselves (some WoO, some not just like the LOLMDS drivers in the selection)

[W2Racing09]

LMFAO, C'MON man. Did he pull a page or 2 out of his Dads book? Okay we had our say. We know how each other feel about each series. Lets move on!!!!

If the book is entitled "Running a profitable racing operation" then yes probably he did.

I don't dislike LOLMDS is the difference, I am a big fan of both series and have favorites on both series (Obviously Richards is my over all favorite driver). I am happy to have both around and think they are both extremely good for the sport.

In fact next time I'm at the track I'll have to buy me a Jimmy Owens T-Shirt now that some changes to his program have been announced.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Barbecueboy]

Do you disagree that SC and NC are not part of the Southeast?

Thanks,
Jeff.

No I'm saying that you listed states in the southeast that he unloaded in......you also listed a couple states outside the southeast he unloaded in.

I'm just saying that because you were trying to make such a strong point , that you made a error and forgot a few states he had unloaded in .

And were pretty matter of fact about it.......that's all.

[KAOS]

I sort of agree with the last part -- one of these tours needs to break out and head to the West Coast for a big swing. I think LOLMDS would have more success because of name recognition, but WRG/WoO does have a lot partnerships with tracks out there already because of the Sprints. I could see a 5-6 race swing early in the season (Maybe between GA/FL and the Illini for WoO or between GA/FL and the Icebreaker weekend for the LOLMDS.There are some great tracks out there and Late Model racing is starting to gain some steam out there too. Honestly I think whichever tour makes it out there first with success will be considered the premier tour. They would be unlocking a huge new market for fans and they would also possibly attract some of the West Coast drivers to consider looking at the tour as an option for the season. Honestly it isn't too much more driver to go from Nebraska to the West Coast. A lot of drivers already head out to AZ so it's not like they are opposed to the idea.Probably would need 3-4 $10,000 to win shows and at least a $20,000 to win show to make it worth it. Not impossible by any stretch.Thanks,Jeff.

I 80 is 23hrs or 1500+ miles away from Cali. Also I believe I 80 is closer to East Bay than it is to any Cali track

[plunks7]

If you think the drivers would all run the same series continuously with double the amount of competition as before with the same amount of money on the line you are crazy. How many times do you think someone like Jonathan Davenport or Shane Clanton are going to continue to unload their cars getting 2-3 wins per season and going thousands of dollars into the red to finish 4th or 5th in points paying $25,000? If you had all the drivers on one series you would certainly need increased payouts (At the very least $15,000 to win, $10,000 for 2nd, $7,500 for 3rd and $1,200 to start before series bonus money).

This is exactly what I would like to see. Bring your A game every night!! Why is it you think it is bad that a so-called top team goes in the red? When their are many other Teams (under funded) that race full time and its okay.

Just remember, if it is a high paying race 50.000.00 at the top. You will get the best their is for that one spot. And drops off a lot through out the field. You have less cars. Now take 30.000.00 at the top with it paying more at the lower end. A lot more cars. Which race, if you had to choose would you go to?

[Barbecueboy]

If the book is entitled "Running a profitable racing operation" then yes probably he did.

I don't dislike LOLMDS is the difference, I am a big fan of both series and have favorites on both series (Obviously Richards is my over all favorite driver). I am happy to have both around and think they are both extremely good for the sport.

In fact next time I'm at the track I'll have to buy me a Jimmy Owens T-Shirt now that some changes to his program have been announced.

Thanks,
Jeff.

So because he switches to your favorite chassis builder, do you still refer to him as a cheater?

And before you answer, go back to a couple of those tire threads to refresh on what you said.

And I'm a jimmy fan fwiw........I like him a lot even though he does drive a chassis that's designed by somebody I don't.

[W2Racing09]

I 80 is 23hrs or 1500+ miles away from Cali. Also I believe I 80 is closer to East Bay than it is to any Cali track

I wouldn't suggest a trip directly piggybacking off of I-80 as most of the teams are wanting to head back East afterward. I was just implying that Nebraska is a hike for a lot of the tour regulars, maybe not quite as far as the West Coast but still one hell of a drive, but if you give them a decent race they don't complain (as is the case with the SDN). Now add 1000 miles to the drive and I guess it could, I just think there is a lot of opportunity out there and some really great drivers could come from over that way if we would get people interested in SLMs over there.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

So because he switches to your favorite chassis builder, do you still refer to him as a cheater?

And before you answer, go back to a couple of those tire threads to refresh on what you said.

And I'm a jimmy fan fwiw........I like him a lot even though he does drive a chassis that's designed by somebody I don't.

Yes for sure -- if they are guilty of prepping tires then that is cheating. You do realize Gregg Satterlee is one of my favorite drivers, and I'm a big Brandon Sheppard fan as well. If Josh Richards had been caught prepping tires I would be just as adamant as I was about tire prepping and still would have gone to the same WoO races I would go to now even without Richards in the field if he were suspended.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

This is exactly what I would like to see. Bring your A game every night!! Why is it you think it is bad that a so-called top team goes in the red? When their are many other Teams (under funded) that race full time and its okay.

Just remember, if it is a high paying race 50.000.00 at the top. You will get the best their is for that one spot. And drops off a lot through out the field. You have less cars. Now take 30.000.00 at the top with it paying more at the lower end. A lot more cars. Which race, if you had to choose would you go to?

It wouldn't last very long. The difference between the top teams and the other teams is that those other teams are probably not doing racing to make ends meat where as a driver like Davenport is using it to provide his income.

If these guys have to race for a living, rather than make a living to support their racing then they need as many opportunities to make big money as possible. In this case whats best for the fans IS NOT best for the sport.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Aluminium Block]

WoO has lost a lot of their "star power," Only 3 of the top 10 would be considered superstars at this time. The rest are regional-level drivers that have the funds to tour nationally. Shirley is borderline since he does have a big win at Knoxville on his resume. Chub at one time was upper tier, but now doesn't even win regional shows when he is off WoO. 1 1 Josh Richards 2 25 Shane Clanton 3 7 Rick Eckert 4 3S Brian Shirley 5 76 Brandon Overton(not a nice word)(not a nice word) 6 C9 Steve Casebolt 7 21JR Billy Moyer Jr. 8 99JR Frank Heckenast Jr. 9 1* Chub Frank 10 18 Eric Wells _________________________________ One cannot deny that Lucas has overall more "star power," more "Crown Jewel" winners etc including several WoO defectors. 1 0 Scott Bloomquist 5480 2 6 Jonathan Davenport 5220 3 B5 Brandon Sheppard 5010 4 777 Jared Landers 4995 5 39 Tim McCreadie 4825 6 28E Dennis Erb, Jr. 4645 7 15L Darrell Lanigan 4630 8 5 Don O'Neal 4620 9 1 Earl Pearson, Jr. 4480 10 20 Jimmy Owens 4460

[W2Racing09]

WoO has lost a lot of their "star power," Only 3 of the top 10 would be considered superstars at this time. The rest are regional-level drivers that have the funds to tour nationally. Shirley is borderline since he does have a big win at Knoxville on his resume. Chub at one time was upper tier, but now doesn't even win regional shows when he is off WoO. 1 1 Josh Richards 2 25 Shane Clanton 3 7 Rick Eckert 4 3S Brian Shirley 5 76 Brandon Overton(not a nice word)(not a nice word) 6 C9 Steve Casebolt 7 21JR Billy Moyer Jr. 8 99JR Frank Heckenast Jr. 9 1* Chub Frank 10 18 Eric Wells _________________________________ One cannot deny that Lucas has overall more "star power," more "Crown Jewel" winners etc including several WoO defectors. 1 0 Scott Bloomquist 5480 2 6 Jonathan Davenport 5220 3 B5 Brandon Sheppard 5010 4 777 Jared Landers 4995 5 39 Tim McCreadie 4825 6 28E Dennis Erb, Jr. 4645 7 15L Darrell Lanigan 4630 8 5 Don O'Neal 4620 9 1 Earl Pearson, Jr. 4480 10 20 Jimmy Owens 4460

I'm definitely not denying that, based on history LOLMDS has a lot of drivers that have been big names. Based on performance this year they are very, very equal however. A lot of those big names the LOLMDS has have done next to nothing all season.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[NormP]

The mistake you are making Jeff, is only using one season's stats. Everyone knows Lanigan, Francis, O'neal, etc. have had much better years than this year. So to say one guy has won more than all of them doesn't really prove anything. 4 years ago Francis was winning more than most, 3 years ago O'neal was, 2 years ago Lanigan and Owens were, etc.

Are you really going to tell us Moyer Jr. Jr. is tougher competition than Jimmy Owens?

[W2Racing09]

The mistake you are making Jeff, is only using one season's stats. Everyone knows Lanigan, Francis, O'neal, etc. have had much better years than this year. So to say one guy has won more than all of them doesn't really prove anything. 4 years ago Francis was winning more than most, 3 years ago O'neal was, 2 years ago Lanigan was, etc.

Oh that is no mistake, I don't base anything on performance from two or three years ago. DLM racing changes too much too fast to go by that. Of course name recognition is important to a series, but as far as on track performance stats from the olden days don't really matter. Jimmy Owens won a bunch of championships on the LOLMDS pre 2014, and now look he struggles to finish on the lead lap.

[Barbecueboy]

Why would it be top 10 only if each series has 12 or more guys following?

Thanks,
Jeff.

Because I asked you to do it for the top ten.........had I said top 12 then you would be correct.

Again, just a way to make your numbers look how you need them to look.........making my point for me.

[jog49]

"The mistake you are making Jeff, is only using one season's stats. Everyone knows Lanigan, Francis, O'neal, etc. have had much better years than this year. So to say one guy has won more than all of them doesn't really prove anything. 4 years ago Francis was winning more than most, 3 years ago O'neal was, 2 years ago Lanigan and Owens were, etc.

Are you really going to tell us Moyer Jr. Jr. is tougher competition than Jimmy Owens?"

Careful there NormP. This little Gen Y or Z kid you're arguing with hasn't been out of diapers too long so he can't think back too many years! LOL!

[old fan]

operative word is had don't live in the past

[old fan]

Are you really going to tell us Moyer Jr. Jr. is tougher competition than Jimmy Owens?" neither this year are running stellar Owens has many wins and a freaky one to boot