The case for inverts

[dirt crow]

I'm a fan. I want inverts. I wanna see racing. Wanna see that fast car get back to the front. If I was a driver, car owner, crew chief, crewmen, i'd look at it differently.

[brsteg]

inverts will and have been debated for a long time.

Dirt Track Racing as a whole (sprints, lates, mods, etc.) are the only forms of motorsport that use inverts (or re-draw), nothing else does. All the top forms of motorsports line up straight up by time (and only run a feature as well).

I'd say the biggest issue dirt track racing has currently is track prep. A poorly prepared track will lead to poor racing period. Too dry it's one lane follow the leader and hope you don't blow a tire. Too wet and it's one lane follow the leader, everyone is fast and the leaders can't even drive past last place.

Very few tracks have consistent enough track prep to allow for inverts (in heats or features) and that is why most drivers and teams are adamantly against inverts. There is no perfect format (straight up starts, inverts, passing points, pill draw), but the racing could be better if track prep was better.

Bull, Pavement Late Models do inverts commonly. And not going to buy Motorsport as a whole deal. Too many levels and sanctions; but inverts and redraws are used elsewhere in the landscape.

[manwplan]

Inverts are not the perfect answer. Case in point the $8100 to win race at Bedford. The track was in good shape and there was plenty of passing in the feature. However Colbey Frye who had a legitimate fast race car but hugely benefited from the invert and a redraw. He was 4th quick time in his group, only a tenth off of fast time. And they inverted 4 for the heats. A tenth is nothing folks. He then drew the outside pole for the feature and then led every lap. He had a great car and deserved to win. Had the invert and redraw not fallen his way who knows if he wins or not. My point is they did all this inverting and redrawing which everyone thinks is needed and yet a guy from the front row led every lap. The days of guys coming from deep to win are few and far between. The good cars are only separated by 1-2 tenths. These days if there is any passing at all and cars are using the whole track I'm satisfied with the racing.

[RiffRaf67]

Apparently u have not seen the crowd for the World 100 vs the crowd for the Kings Royal... place looks like a ghost town when the SPRINTS are there n comparison to the Late Models....

This is a false statement. This years Kings Royal appeared to me to be more full than this year's Dream and on-par with a typical (last 10 years) World 100.
FAR cry from a "Ghost town"...

[mskdorf]

Record crowd for the King's Royal this year. I'm sure there were more people for that than any World. Sprints do, unfortunately, bring a bigger crowd.

[old17ford]

Invert the top 6 would be ok if have a good track to race on . But down here in the south we have tracks that if you set fast time and start 6th the best you can hope for is 5th . Train race tracks .

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Record crowd for the King's Royal this year. I'm sure there were more people for that than any World. Sprints do, unfortunately, bring a bigger crowd.

That isn't very intuitive when their weekly racing base is almost no existent.

[vande077]

Bull, Pavement Late Models do inverts commonly. And not going to buy Motorsport as a whole deal. Too many levels and sanctions; but inverts and redraws are used elsewhere in the landscape.

maybe I didn't say it and I haven't re-read it yet. But the Top Level of virtually all racing does straight up starts.

I consider pavement late models as stock cars, and the top level of stock cars is NASCAR, and they do straight up starts in all 3 divisions and ARCA does as well.

F1's ladder series all do straight up starts

IndyCar's ladder series all do straight up starts

USAC Silver Crown (their top series) does straight up starts and locks in most the field based on Time Trials as I recall.

WoO Sprints are the top division of sprint cars (sorry USAC fans) and they have almost gotten to the point of straight up starts (heat races are already and the dash can be as well, so quick time can win the feature without ever passing a car all night)

WoO Lates and Lucas Oil are the top division of dirt late models. I know WoO does a re-draw for the top 8, but don't see enough of their races to see if heats are straight up.

Like it or not, dirt racing is the only form of racing at it's top level that still inverts. I will still maintain that the format makes no difference, it's TRACK PREP that needs to be addressed.

[Snake X3]

I'm late on this thread, but it's a topic I have a pretty strong opinion on. Regardless of how drivers qualify for a feature IMO they shouldn't be penalized for excellence. I understand people that say they want a good show, but as many others have said, if the track is good then there will be passing. If the track is poor and there is no passing I still want to see the best man win, not the guy that is given an advantage because he can't compete on equal footing with someone else. It's a sport...a competition to see who is the best. Other professional sports don't penalize the best teams during a game. I don't know why it's supposed to be different in racing.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

maybe I didn't say it and I haven't re-read it yet. But the Top Level of virtually all racing does straight up starts.

I consider pavement late models as stock cars, and the top level of stock cars is NASCAR, and they do straight up starts in all 3 divisions and ARCA does as well.

F1's ladder series all do straight up starts

IndyCar's ladder series all do straight up starts

USAC Silver Crown (their top series) does straight up starts and locks in most the field based on Time Trials as I recall.

WoO Sprints are the top division of sprint cars (sorry USAC fans) and they have almost gotten to the point of straight up starts (heat races are already and the dash can be as well, so quick time can win the feature without ever passing a car all night)

WoO Lates and Lucas Oil are the top division of dirt late models. I know WoO does a re-draw for the top 8, but don't see enough of their races to see if heats are straight up.

Like it or not, dirt racing is the only form of racing at it's top level that still inverts. I will still maintain that the format makes no difference, it's TRACK PREP that needs to be addressed.

A lot of the cars you mention can barely pass each other under the best of circumstances. Even ignoring that, shouldn't we strive for better entertainment?

[MBR Performance]

Inverts and passing points are stupid. No one should be punished for being fast. If ya don't like it then step up your game.

[Hoosier]

"Other professional sports don't penalize the best teams during a game."

Yes, they do give the worst teams the best draft picks.

[hipower17]

i'm with mbr on his comment

[CIRF]

Keep in mind I speak strictly from a bleacher jockey spectator point of view. That said, we obviously like inverts. The appreciable potential is there for passing and hard racing at the front. As has been previously mentioned more than once, track prep is essential to any lineup procedure, but all things equal inverts create a situation that has the greater potential to produce the most entertaining racing. The same can be said for the passing points process.

Some competitors will have a much different viewpoint and their concerns are obviously legitimate since they are "the show" and have the most skin in the game. That viewpoint must be considered and respected but we also can't have below average quality shows for equally obvious reason's.

In addition to dirt late models USAC Silver Crown racing is a favorite of ours and they start the top 24 straight up according to qualifying and the final 6 spots start according to where they finished in the last chance race. Over the past 3 or 4 years the racing in the SC division has been phenomenal with winners and podium finishers coming from well back in the fields despite the straight up starting policy. There are exceptions to be found to nearly every situation.

[Bubstr]

Inverts and passing points are stupid. No one should be punished for being fast. If ya don't like it then step up your game.

Actually Time trials have no place in a auto race. No one cares how fast they are alone. The question is can they pass. There is Bonneville for the guys that think speed is everything. We have all seen the fast car that can't pass anyone. Should we penalize the real racer? Double heat passing points gives everyone a fair chance. If they are a racer, they will come to the top. If they are just a time trialer, they need to step up their game. If it's a poor track, they need to step up their game.

[Snake X3]

Inverts are so gay. I really don't see any reason for them at a Crown Jewel like the World.