New droop rule

[#FALSuperman]

Here's link to the article... https://racingnews.co/2018/01/21/ray...mpression=true

[petesbuyin]

"I think I had three cars turn over this past year. Out of 30 races, that’s what? 1%? That ain’t like it’s a huge amount."
Ray Cook


And this is the guy that is making the rules? Guys like this making rules is way harmful to the sport than anything going on with the cars.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Ray is as qualified or more than the bozos involved in the Rumley rules.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Rumley rules ? Banned, Illegal, I don't get why your saying those involved ? It was pretty much open rule book, close rule book.

[crownman25]

what ray is trying to do is GREAT.First making older cars be competative so everyone doesn't have to guy buy a new $50,000 race car,2 trying to keep from getting someone injured.What about the car that turned over and burnt a guy up?Sure only 1 car turned over but any of them can catch on fire...The next step needs to be a suspension rule 1 spring per corner no bumps no rubbers ,no dual stage technology has gotten out of control ,lets face it the reason sat night guys cant cxompete its because set ups are so complex and lots of testing spent on them sat night racer has to work everyday he cant go test. if nascar can tell teams what springs they can use so can dirt series,I would like to see winner have to pull his shocks springs off after the race remove covers place on a table and let them be looked at and inspected by anyone nascar does this...

[CarolinaDirt]

It isn't going to matter unless every sanctioned series adopts the same rules . If anything by him doing this alone he has alienated his series from the big name drivers he needs to promote his races. I like Ray but unless everyone is on board this is only gonna harm not help his series.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Rumley rules ? Banned, Illegal, I don't get why your saying those involved ? It was pretty much open rule book, close rule book.

I think you are perhaps unaware.

[Matt49]

The more this sport ends up with essentially different classes due to rules packages being so different from one another, the more you are going to see car counts go DOWN. The last time the sport had a real surge in car counts was when Memmer made basically every race track use the same rules. A guy could take a car and hit the road and race at just about any track with the same race car. And what is happening with the crates is making it worse because so many people want to dumb that down to a street stock. If a guy has an open late model and blows the motor he should be able to drop a crate motor in and go racing in that class. But that isn't the case because all of these crate sanctions have made anything they don't understand illegal in the name of cost savings. Their car counts are going to continue dropping as a result.
What this sport needs is ONE RULES PACKAGE for the cars and keep a crate late model just that. A late model CAR with a crate motor in it. I understand there are going to be different tire rules at different tracks but I shouldn't have to bolt on a totally different suspension package to be legal from one track to another.
And keep the NASCAR mentality out. WAY the hell out! NASCAR cup series cars are glorified street stocks racing for millions of dollars. If you want to spend millions on engineering to win millions, NASCAR is for you.

And for the record, every time someone says, "the technology has gotten out of control", I hear, "I'm not smart enough to figure this out." Am I getting beat by guys that are spending more on "technology"? Absolutely. But instead of complaining about it, I try to figure out ways that I can (as cost-effectively as possible) get up to speed on what I need to stay on top of things. Am I the only racer that thinks like this anymore??? If you can't keep up with the advancements in the class you're racing and don't like it, consider changing classes before demanding that your class change the rules to cater to your lack of desire to learn new things. I'm tired of it. Rant over.

[Illtsate32]

Its a very small percentage of people developing the technology compared to everybody in dirt latemodel racing..as for people needing to "get smart" and figure out a way to compete...well I dont know Ray Cook and Steve Francis personally but id be comfortable saying im pretty sure they are fairly knowledgeable... and they are tired of technology getting out of control..they are tired of it...tired of getting beat by a guy who cant drive a hot nail in a snow bank but has a $110,000 car that is glued to the racetrack...

[Bubstr]

The more this sport ends up with essentially different classes due to rules packages being so different from one another, the more you are going to see car counts go DOWN. The last time the sport had a real surge in car counts was when Memmer made basically every race track use the same rules. A guy could take a car and hit the road and race at just about any track with the same race car. And what is happening with the crates is making it worse because so many people want to dumb that down to a street stock. If a guy has an open late model and blows the motor he should be able to drop a crate motor in and go racing in that class. But that isn't the case because all of these crate sanctions have made anything they don't understand illegal in the name of cost savings. Their car counts are going to continue dropping as a result.
What this sport needs is ONE RULES PACKAGE for the cars and keep a crate late model just that. A late model CAR with a crate motor in it. I understand there are going to be different tire rules at different tracks but I shouldn't have to bolt on a totally different suspension package to be legal from one track to another.
And keep the NASCAR mentality out. WAY the hell out! NASCAR cup series cars are glorified street stocks racing for millions of dollars. If you want to spend millions on engineering to win millions, NASCAR is for you.

And for the record, every time someone says, "the technology has gotten out of control", I hear, "I'm not smart enough to figure this out." Am I getting beat by guys that are spending more on "technology"? Absolutely. But instead of complaining about it, I try to figure out ways that I can (as cost-effectively as possible) get up to speed on what I need to stay on top of things. Am I the only racer that thinks like this anymore??? If you can't keep up with the advancements in the class you're racing and don't like it, consider changing classes before demanding that your class change the rules to cater to your lack of desire to learn new things. I'm tired of it. Rant over.

X2, Matt hit it out of the park here. One rule, same enforcement everywhere and less classes. There are a lot more smart racers than some people think. Then you do see a lot of local racers, that aren't smart enough to know, what tech to buy and are talked into anything. Some are no better than the people on 4m arguing about what engine or chassis is best. If it wins for you, it is best for you. Last I checked, just about all of them, have won for someone.

[DEKconsulting]

Hey does everyone think this brings older cars back into the game i understand if u dont want to work on ur car but with a little bit of inenuity and work u can make a 2012 car droop or risse up in the air just like the newer cars. Done people just dont like to work just dip into the ole pockets and buy speed

[grt74]

it wasn't very long ago we were killing guys with a 2002 grt, we had to use the hot wrench and updated it ourselves but we were up front, and it pissed off alot of people off that spent some serious money, guys a plumb bob, angle finder, and a tape measure will do wonders, then find a shock guy that will work with you !!! and listen to you, but have enough of an understanding of shocks yourself, so you can then look at what you have been running and where to have your shocks changed
and i agree with matt, if your not wanting to work on your car or look for speed, late models are not for you, as far as crates they have gotten way out of hand, no sense in even having that class anymore, 1/2 will go to supers the other half will go to open wheels and there is nothing wrong with that, its still racing

let the beatings begin

[Clayton_Wetter]

Gotta believe the "droop rule" will just go away fairly quick. Since nobody else is talking this rule. At least we don't hear about it.

[CarolinaDirt]

If Ray is still offering money to win his races, then whomever wants it will show up and make the "MINOR" adjustments to compete. Only some neckless goober would pout and leave over this small change.

You mean like his series champion Brandon Overton, how about Donald Macintosh that is now running Lucas or Mike Marlar that is running WOO.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You mean like his series champion Brandon Overton, how about Donald Macintosh that is now running Lucas or Mike Marlar that is running WOO.

I have only heard the argument that one of those is gone due to the rule. And who really knows?

[hucktyson]

You people and by " you people " I mean 95% are absolute clowns . Marlar and Overton are national touring talent that can and do win national touring events. 3-5k to win shows are beneath both of them. McIntosh will be back running those shows by June at the latest. Say 500lb per inch of hike which I think is high unless your running Knoxville or Pittsburgh times 10 inches the top guys will be down that's 5k of downforce.... let's say it's only 2500 ... you don't think that an extra 2500lbs pushing down on the back of the car jamming the rr deeper into a hole doesn't make the car more likely to roll at 130mph ?? It's common sense. 2500/5k in downforce somehow makes racing better ??? It does nothing but make it more expensive. For what ??? So a couple people on here can throw strokes in the sleazy chair watching track records be broken ?? And dudes sit out a year with a concussion ??

[warriorracerg9]

Did wedge cars turn over easier? I realize that they weren't "on the hook" but in your argument downforce is down force right? btw I think you are way off on your numbers. A top fuel dragster makes 10,000 pounds on downforce at 337 mph with a huge wing that is designed in a wind tunnel to do just that. I do agree with you that racing has gotten too expensive but this isn't the way to reign it back in IMO. You cant regress with rules as that only adds expense. You can draw a line and stop progression somewhat but again you cant regress. We race in the southeast mostly with the annual trip to Eldora thrown in and I have rarely seen any track records broken in the last several years. Trying to go backwards with rule packages inherently make racing more expensive. example, If we choose to continue running rays deal we now have to spend money renting tracks, wearing out tires, motors, cars etc to figure out how to be competitive again? basically throw our existing notebook away and start over. I get what you are saying but I respectfully disagree with you that it will make racing cheaper. take asphalt late models for example, they continued to change to rules and now what? they are basically extinct. BTW I am all for safety especially now that I am older and have 2 children but trying to tell me that limiting droop is for my safety is a joke. Its like telling me you are feeding me a steak but I good and well its liver.

[CageFaraday]

Did wedge cars turn over easier? I realize that they weren't "on the hook" but in your argument downforce is down force right? btw I think you are way off on your numbers. A top fuel dragster makes 10,000 pounds on downforce at 337 mph with a huge wing that is designed in a wind tunnel to do just that. I do agree with you that racing has gotten too expensive but this isn't the way to reign it back in IMO. You cant regress with rules as that only adds expense. You can draw a line and stop progression somewhat but again you cant regress. We race in the southeast mostly with the annual trip to Eldora thrown in and I have rarely seen any track records broken in the last several years. Trying to go backwards with rule packages inherently make racing more expensive. example, If we choose to continue running rays deal we now have to spend money renting tracks, wearing out tires, motors, cars etc to figure out how to be competitive again? basically throw our existing notebook away and start over. I get what you are saying but I respectfully disagree with you that it will make racing cheaper. take asphalt late models for example, they continued to change to rules and now what? they are basically extinct. BTW I am all for safety especially now that I am older and have 2 children but trying to tell me that limiting droop is for my safety is a joke. Its like telling me you are feeding me a steak but I good and well its liver.

Your comparing down force to center of gravity(COG). Todays cars have some of the down force the wedge cars had, but their mechanically induced HIGH COG is what makes them flip. No Wedge cars didn't flip. We went backwards before and it worked out better than anyone could've imagined. Anyone who insults Ray's integrity on what he's saying about why he made this rule, is NOT a man. Ray is one of the few in the sport that actually stands behind what he says, not like the clowns running WoO.

[warriorracerg9]

Well I guess I should tell you that I know and have tremendous respect for Ray cook but I don't have to agree with the rule or why he has imposed it. I am not questioning his integrity as I happen to know that he is an honorable fella. He has called several of us that race with him and I can tell you that no one I know of is in agreement with this rule. don't forget that in racing no matter what the rules are it will always be the have and have nots. the big teams can absorb the cost of rule changes much easier than the smaller local guys and that's exactly where I was going in using asphalt late models as an example. Sure there will be guys that will show up no matter what the rules are but I will leave it at this. Be careful what you wish for.

[Matt49]

Yes, huck's numbers are way off. If late models were generating 5000 lbs of down force we would need about 20 psi in all 4 tires just to keep the sidewalls stood up. Not to mention all of these aluminum body braces and 1/4" bolts would be shredded to pieces. And if they had 5000 lbs of down force they would NEVER turn over unless they went airborne first. As one of the clowns I'm sure he's referring to, I sure am way better at math than the non-clowns.
The uptick in rollovers is because of two things: softer overall suspensions (less roll resistance to get the attitude we want in the cars) and higher dynamic vertical center of gravity due to the lifting of the LR. What Cook has tried to do here is limit the latter with the hope of getting the cars safer. I've met Ray and he seems like a great guy. I don't doubt his integrity and I respect his intent but I think there are WAY simpler ways to do this. It starts by enforcing existing body rules. Get rid of all the "1 inch tolerance" here and "2 inch tolerance" there in the rules. Then (and only then), add a very simple rule that specifies and minimum and maximum nose height all the way across at ride height. Something like 6" minimum and 10" maximum NO TOLERANCE should just about do the trick. Simple to enforce and it would go a long way toward minimizing the affects of the dynamic wedge body. The body rules have gone unenforced and over the years rules have been changed because of the tolerances allowed. Nobody wants to tell a team to reel it in an inch or load up, so they just change the rules to allow it. That's stupid but it's what's been going on for about 30 years. The cars should be "aerodynamic" because the looks appeal to fans. But it shouldn't take 3 people to squeeze the thing into a trailer.
Quick Ray Cook story as it is ironic that the topic was the cost of racing. I was chatting with him at MasterSbilt and we were quickly tallying up all the specialty tools and equipment that a late model team needs. I said something to the affect of, "the cost of this stuff really starts to add up". He said, "well you don't buy it all the same week". I think about that all the time and try to apply it to how we do things.