WOO and LUCAS will kill LM racing

[huskerdirt]

20 to 30 cars on waiting list when it was limited to 66 cars

Hardly..... There was maybe 10 at the most. Last year the count was 65 that pulled through the gate. Year before was like 55 when it was unsanctioned.

[windycity]

Tuty,

So your point is have the Crown Jewels be unsanctioned and go ahead and have Lucas and WoO schedule on top of the Crown Jewels and then more cars would show up to the Crown Jewels.
Could happen, so why don't the Crown Jewels go the unsanctioned route? Like I said earlier it must make more sense financially for them to go with a sanction rather than go unsanctioned.

Jog 49, My point is you can have a 20,000 to win unsanctioned event and get the same number of cars as a 20,000 to win sanctioned event. Just because you have an unsanctioned event does not mean more cars are going to show up.

Knoxville never had 20-30 cars on the waiting list that did not get to race. When they had a waiting list all the drivers on the list got to race because other drivers on the entry list backed out.
In 2008 being unsanctioned 63 cars showed up. Unsanctioned in 2009, I think there were 59 cars but some had to leave due to the show being a one day event on Sunday in which 53 cars raced. In 2010 unsanctioned and 61 cars showed. Last year with Lucas Oil Series as the sanction, 64 cars showed up.

[fryefan]

Ok, Knoxville 1 day away and 2 of the top 6 cars on the planet are off the entry list and 1 up and comer not coming ! Most all the WOO guys are staying home to race local tracks, with over $260,000 on the line over 3 days at Knoxville. This happens all over the country all year long and before long it will all be like Virginia speedway, $20,000 to win and 25 cars show up. These 6-10 shows that are so called CROWN JEWELS need to be unsactioned to teach a huge lesson to these guys that they can't control LM racing. You might say they will just schedule over top these shows then you'll have no one, not true. There's only 10-12 cars running each group full time and I have a example. When WOO Sprints split up in the early 80's to the USA group and WOO, all the big guy's raced at Husets Speedway Brandon SD and just 90 miles down the road at Jackson Speedway the WOO group was there without all there stars. 13 cars shows at the USA show with Kinser,Swindel,and all the big guy's and a whopping 85 cars showed at Jackson with many mid level names and people I've never herd of. They put on the best show ever seen at Jackson, and it didn't take the BIG guy's long to figure they better get over there ego's and the USA group was stopped and failed.

There will more than enough quality cars.

[fryefan]

Hardly..... There was maybe 10 at the most. Last year the count was 65 that pulled through the gate. Year before was like 55 when it was unsanctioned.

Tuty just throws numbers out there, even when they are not even remotely close to facts. He just likes to complain. Maybe he should fined a new hobby that would make him happy.

[TUTY]

I've seen atleast 20 cars on waiting list and 66 pre-entries and ya your right 15 of those 20 don't come and 5 do and 7 of the 66 back-out and there's 64 cars. Tell me this how many years have newman and stewart been on the list of 66 and has John Anderson ever ran more than night 1. I've been there 6 of the 9 years !

[windycity]

I am not sure how many times Stewart and Newman have been on the entry list. Stewart raced in 06,08 and 09 and Newman in 07,09, and 10. John Anderson has raced 3 nights at the Knoxville Nationals. In 2004 he ran opening night and finished 6th in Saturdays B-Main missing the A by 2 spots and then again on opening night in 2010.
Later today I will be at the Knoxville Late Model Nationals for the 9th time.

[ftfiowa]

Anybopdy who has ever seen me post before will tell you that I am no fan of touring series' or sanctions, but I'm not an idiot, I know they're here to stay. There are a few things that nobody seems to be taking into consideration when it comes to WoO racers attendance at the Knoxville Nationals...

A. Knoxville, IA is a seriously long haul-its knoxville,suck it up.

B. They get precious few weekends off either tour for r&r once the race season gets in full swing. i thought these guys were touring professionals,they got all winter to rest and relax,ITS KNOXVIILE!.

C. blah blah blah-ITS KNOXVILLE,either you get it or you dont!.

D. Knoxville is very hard on motors. The sign of a good track IMO.

E. Only one car wins the big money ISNT THIS THE CASE AT EVERY BIG RACE?.

Guys can stay home and thats their choice but they cannot claim they ran against the best unless they were at Knoxville.period.end of statement.

[Josh Bayko]

Guys can stay home and thats their choice but they cannot claim they ran against the best unless they were at Knoxville.period.end of statement.

Oh, I don't expect you to get it. You're clearly a butthurt Iowa resident who thinks the racing world revolves around him. You're pathetic.

[vande07]

Anybopdy who has ever seen me post before will tell you that I am no fan of touring series' or sanctions, but I'm not an idiot, I know they're here to stay. There are a few things that nobody seems to be taking into consideration when it comes to WoO racers attendance at the Knoxville Nationals...

A. Knoxville, IA is a seriously long haul for all the WoO runners except for Kent Robinson. Everybody else is based pretty much on the east coast and would be looking at a 12+ hour trip at the very least to Iowa.

B. They get precious few weekends off either tour for r&r once the race season gets in full swing. Once they get a free weekend, lots of guys would rather take the time to hang out with the family or go have some non-racing related fun while the weather is still halfway decent.

C. There are high paying races much closer to home for most of the WoO guys this weekend. For instance... I could see the Rocket house car team electing going to Roaring Knob or Brushcreek this weekend instead. Brushcreek is about 4 hours away from the shop; Roaring Knob is maybe an hour.

D. Knoxville is very hard on motors. The season is wining down, I can imagine motors are in short supply for some guys. There are still points paying races on the schedule, and risking your equipment might be catastrophic for the points chase.

E. Only one car wins the big money.

A. Agree - if it doesn't make financial sense for a team, I don't blame them for not pulling so far

B. maybe, but this time of year guys are making sure they have a certain # of $$'s in the bank for the offseason and to make sure they can replenish parts/pieces for next season

C. Agree - again, if it doesn't make financial sense to drive that far for their team they'd be stupid to.

D. I sortof agree. EVERY track is very hard on motors just in diffferent ways. Knoxville they keep the motors wound up pretty much the whole race, but I've heard many motor builders that say short tracks are just as hard or harder on motors and you're always on and off the loud pedal which strains the parts just as much or more.

E. Disagree - Knoxville more than ANY other event in Late Models allows more than just the winning team to have a good weekend at the paywindow. Win a prelim night and run 10th on Saturday and you earn $12,000 minimum (that's better than running 3rd at the World 100). Run 5th, 5th and 10th and you take home $8000 (that's better than 4th place at the World 100) Run 10th, 10th and 20th and you take home $4000 (that's 7th place $$ at the World). Run 24th, 24th and 30th and you take home $3300 (that's better than 9th place at the World).


I understand that not ALL of the big teams will be in attendance (you can't say that they will ALL be at ANY race anymore as it's just too expensive to go up and down the highway), heck McCreadie, Eckert and others have skipped the World in just the last few years and Birkhofer stated in Victory Lane @ the World that he had contemplated skipping it this year.

I (as a fan and Knoxville resident) don't blame ANYONE for not traveling 1000 miles or more to compete or spectate (it's an expensive endeavor).

Hope those that are here to complete have a SAFE weekend of racing and those here to spectate get to watch great racing and enjoy the area/event and return again in the future.

To me, Knoxville is no different than Eldora, you can't convince someone how great of an atmosphere or how good the racing is, they have to experience it first-hand.

[TUTY]

Been there done that and the 1/2 mile track doesn't come close to Cedar Lake, Deer Creek, 3/8 mile tracks. I'm not saying there isn't some good racing at knoxville but not all night through the whole show. I'm a bit biased with Cedar Lake, every single year amazing racing from heats to pole dash to b-mains and a-main, and don't forget 2 full shows of Nascar Late Models ! The total show doesn't compair and way up in Wisconsin they get as many if not more fans then Knoxville. FIGURE THAT ONE OUT !

[vande07]

Been there done that and the 1/2 mile track doesn't come close to Cedar Lake, Deer Creek, 3/8 mile tracks. I'm not saying there isn't some good racing at knoxville but not all night through the whole show. I'm a bit biased with Cedar Lake, every single year amazing racing from heats to pole dash to b-mains and a-main, and don't forget 2 full shows of Nascar Late Models ! The total show doesn't compair and way up in Wisconsin they get as many if not more fans then Knoxville. FIGURE THAT ONE OUT !

Last I checked, this thread doesn't have anything to do with Deer Creek or Cedar Lake.

I've seen nothiing from you except negative comments toward Knoxville the past 2 weeks. I have not problem with you touting Cedar Lake or Deer Creek when they have an event, I think we should ALL be thankful that there are tracks out there willing to put on big shows instead of talking about how much better one is over the other without using facts/figures (I responded with FACTS about how more than 1 team was taking home pretty good $$ from Knoxville when compared with the biggest event in Late Model Racing the World 100 (my figures came straight from Knoxville's website and from the World 100 Entry Form for 2012)).

You are simply stating an OPINION about Cedar Lake and Deer Creek, you have no FACTS to back them up.

Here's a couple more FACTS, winners starting position last year @ Knoxville

Thursday Heats won from 10th, 10th, 10th, 10th and 4th. C-feature won from 12th, B feature won from 3rd, Feature won from 3rd.

Friday Heats won from 6th, 1st, 2nd, 1st and 8th. C-feature won from 8th, B feature won from 1st, A - feature won from 3rd

Saturday C Feature won from 4th, B Feature won from 2nd and A feature won from 8th.


Seems to me like I saw PLENTY of great racing on a 1/2 mile track last year.

[TUTY]

8000 fans at last day of USA NATIONALS, 6000 fans at DEER CREEK this year for WOO show with a USMTS modified support class ! A place as Knoxvile in it's 9th year hasn't, isn't, and maybe never will get it right with the Late Model and I don't no the answer. Maybe 7000 or 8000 thousand fans night 3 at a place like this that hold 26,000 fans. You are the one stating you have only been to Knoxville and not the other tracks. On whowon there a good thread on no support class will cost Knoxville money, check it out (I'm not even apart of it). You think people have bit---- in the past about having a support class wait till this year when paople bit-- about watching 3 races for $35.

[vande07]

8000 fans at last day of USA NATIONALS, 6000 fans at DEER CREEK this year for WOO show with a USMTS modified support class ! A place as Knoxvile in it's 9th year hasn't, isn't, and maybe never will get it right with the Late Model and I don't no the answer. Maybe 7000 or 8000 thousand fans night 3 at a place like this that hold 26,000 fans. You are the one stating you have only been to Knoxville and not the other tracks. On whowon there a good thread on no support class will cost Knoxville money, check it out (I'm not even apart of it). You think people have bit---- in the past about having a support class wait till this year when paople bit-- about watching 3 races for $35.

12000 attended the final night in 2011 @ Knoxville (per the fairboard members I know). They have no reason to inflate the #'s, if anything they understate them (They told me earlier this year that we only had 500 in the stands for a weekly show, I took them down to 1 section and starting counting heads and had over 200 in that section alone. They walked off in a huff saying "well, from the booth it looks like we don't have nobody here...").

Looks are very decieving @ Knoxville, until you have AT LEAST 8000, the place looks empty (the grandstands are so big). Same as watching Indianapolis on TV. Even with all those empty seats, they still have well over 100,000 in attendance for the NASCAR race.

[slick01]

I am sure that adding the mods would force them into opening the backstretch grandstand with all the fans they bring in.

[donnybeaupre]

12000 attended the final night in 2011 @ Knoxville (per the fairboard members I know). They have no reason to inflate the #'s, if anything they understate them (They told me earlier this year that we only had 500 in the stands for a weekly show, I took them down to 1 section and starting counting heads and had over 200 in that section alone. They walked off in a huff saying "well, from the booth it looks like we don't have nobody here...").

Looks are very decieving @ Knoxville, until you have AT LEAST 8000, the place looks empty (the grandstands are so big). Same as watching Indianapolis on TV. Even with all those empty seats, they still have well over 100,000 in attendance for the NASCAR race.

Dude I'm trying to fiqure out your point of bashing this race? Either your made because you can't get off work or because they won't let you race your hobby stock in the support class. How can you rip on this race. I have had a booth at cedar lake for 20 plus years and have been to every late model nationals. They are all great times? Who cares if you think one is better then the other. Ok you better get back to work now as I and thousands of others are going racing at the greatest dirt track in the world! Suck it