Flipping cars & injuries

[Josh Bayko]

And that Refrigerator is now a 1/3 of the way flipped when they on the gas..some cars are 1 foot or more higher on the drivers side now...Nose digs in tire digs in you gone...Its not Areo...

Modern setups are the way way they are because of the aerodynamics a late model brings. If you took away some of that aero, the setups would go away, because the cars would be tighter than bull's a*shole.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I don't know a ton about weight and setups, but didn't oval racers used to want the weight as low and furthest left as they could get it?

[billetbirdcage]

I don't know a ton about weight and setups, but didn't oval racers used to want the weight as low and furthest left as they could get it?

NO!


Too me what has changed most is the speed into the corner, thus more likely to flip on some tracks with character.

Name one person that has flipped that wasn't on entry to the middle of the corner?

[billetbirdcage]

It is absolutely contributed to by the suspensions of today. Tied down right fronts and pinned up left rears - the car is in a constant state of yaw with the nose as close to track as possible. All it takes is that nose to dig in a little bit and they are flipping. The cars have gotten faster and the only things that have really changed the last 3 years is the aero stuff and suspensions. The suspensions changed to help the aero.

I am NOT against technology or ingenuity but I believe if we took all the aero out of the equation we would see less flips and slower speeds which would equate to less injuries. I get attacked every time I say it but its a fact we are going too fast for the cars we have. And everyone that jumps on me says we should make the cars better and improve safety equipment. And that is all well and good but what about the 20,000 cars that are already out there? Is everyone going to go and buy a new car that is beefed up for higher speeds? Or are they just going to quit because they already won't spend the money to have a $800 fire suppression system or a good 3 layer suit. Taking the aero away costs very little to nothing really. Get the nose back where it was in 2003 or 2004. Floppers flat. Bodies flat. Make the doors the same height on both sides. It really wouldn't take a lot.

Not really disagreeing with you Kelley but sort of hard to make a difference with the body rules when most can't enforce the body rules we have now.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Flipping is going to happen, it's racing and that means speed. A conventional suspension before the invention of J bars would do a lot to help. Going back to the suspensions of around 1980 is something I would like to see.

But if you want to slow cars down to stop rollovers that would take a lot. And who wants to go watch snail races?

[Josh Bayko]

NO!


Too me what has changed most is the speed into the corner, thus more likely to flip on some tracks with character.

Name one person that has flipped that wasn't on entry to the middle of the corner?

Freddie Carptenter at Tyler County back in August was on corner exit.

[billetbirdcage]

Freddie Carptenter at Tyler County back in August was on corner exit.

Was Chesley's flip off the corner? the photo's appear like it could have been as it seems like the cars where piled on the straight, but you know what assuming gets you?

Carpenters flip a hard one?

[Josh Bayko]

Was Chesley's flip off the corner? the photo's appear like it could have been as it seems like the cars where piled on the straight, but you know what assuming gets you?

Carpenters flip a hard one?

It was pretty nasty. Car was junk. Track had a foot high cushion that night because it kept raining on and off.

[a25rjr]

Not really disagreeing with you Kelley but sort of hard to make a difference with the body rules when most can't enforce the body rules we have now.

Let us hear your thoughts and/or opinions on this billet. You certainly have the knowledge and experience we could all learn from. What needs to be changed on these cars to keep them mostly on the ground?

[billetbirdcage]

Let us hear your thoughts and/or opinions on this billet. You certainly have the knowledge and experience we could all learn from. What needs to be changed on these cars to keep them mostly on the ground?

IT F$$KING DON'T MATTER they can't enforce the rules we have now so why make new ones!!!!!!


Sorry to be so blunt, but tired of rules that aren't enforced also you CAN'T UNLEARN TECHNOLOGY so we will find a way around them anyways and be back in the same place with LR up and RF down in a matter of weeks.

[Cardirt0]

IT F$$KING DON'T MATTER they can't enforce the rules we have now so why make new ones!!!!!!


Sorry to be so blunt, but tired of rules that aren't enforced also you CAN'T UNLEARN TECHNOLOGY so we will find a way around them anyways and be back in the same place with LR up and RF down in a matter of weeks.

been at track Tape check the window Tape check the spoiler count the Shocks they say good to go...Once that teen has had sex to late too tell him too stop...

[Stede Bonnet]

Just wanted to throw out a question to get some ideas on what can be done to slow the cars down &/or make them less prone to flipping. Seems this year there has been a rash of nasty ones with some driver injuries to boot. I saw the Eric Wells crash at the PDC & it was as vicious a flip as I've seen in a late model. I know tacky track conditions as well as some track layouts with open corners are a factor, but it seems the cars are getting much more prone to sprint car type flips in recent years.

Seems like something might need to be done as some of the tracks really aren't "flip worthy" if you will in terms of the barriers & fencing they have. I'm by no means an expert, just a fan & curious of other's thoughts on this.

My racing began in 1986 and between then and 1998 when the axle behind setup took hold I only ever saw 2 DLM's get turned over. Since then I've seen dozens in persons and many more online. Running the cars with an "FDAU"(Face Down A$$ Up) attitude invites flipping, its simple physics. The mass of the car is extremely elevated and the J-bar acts like a pole vault. If they hits a hole wrong or gets touched while in a bad angle, it just sends the car flipping. To me this issue and the escapability of the cars are what need addressing, followed by better fire fighting equipment, ie onboard fire suppression systems. In every incident I've seen, the primary issue is inability to exit the car or render aide, then add in fire and disaster is waiting around every turn. We need to keep the cars on their wheels...

[Clayton_Wetter]

Just put a round top on the cars and they will roll right back over on their wheels, Problem solved!!!!

[zeroracing]

The reality is short of changing the cars drastically in a way that would make current cars obsolete and restart the arms race I don't see what you could do. You could change the bodies, again wild changes would make the current cars junk, you could mandate linear springs, without bumps we would just tear up more shocks (assuming we don't put the bumps inside the shocks...)

If you change the rules to where all the current cars take major body work, or major chassis work to work again you will drive racers away.

We have learned that we can push the car harder than ever before, this is both aero and mechanically, the ideas have started to trickle down to other classes. I see more mods trying to cram the RF down, keep the tail up, even in three link b mods...

The truth is we have learned more than we ever thought possible just a few years ago, we cannot unlearn what we know now and a new rules package will just cause the teams to spend r and d money to recreate what we have now.

Years ago it was just the wedge body, not the wedge body and a set of trick shocks and suspensions linkages... Also engineers stayed in cup, now they trickle down and pass on knowledge. It is not as simple as people think.

Best rules to improve safety and work on speeds:

1. Harder tires
2. 50 # weight penalty for 1.5" cage
3. 50# for no automatic onboard fire system.

More and more rules just walk the line to asphalt spec racing and smaller fields. Our local track was up to 30 cars per night weekly in limited (no opens). Still pretty good field of guys that would drop to single digits with major changes.

[Bubstr]

I can think of several things, that could help save lives.
1# External fuel shut off valve in a standard spot.
2# External electrical disconnect close to or same switch as the fuel.
3# Roofs fastened on by Duzce fasteners or some quick disconnect, for quick driver removal.
4# A limiter chain on the left rear, that only allows a agreed amount of hike.

These would be easy to check and everything but the limiter could be optional, If they chose. At least Safety personal would know where to look for it. It would be up to the driver if he wished to see his kids graduate. There is a start.