National Tours in 2017

[W2Racing09]

That's is what I am really hoping for. As a whole no one can complain about the competition level in the sport, but unless a few of the Lucas teams step up their compete level, WoO may have the more interesting point battle with or without Madden. Actually with the departure of JD and B-Shep, I think Lucas could use Madden more than WoO. Having Madden on a national tour will be good for the sport no matter which tour he choses.

I definitely don't think that LOLMDS needs Madden more than WoO. Without Madden the WoO has no real top shelf drivers.

Obviously DoD isn't the gospel on driver rankings, but I think most people would have a pretty close list.

The final top 10 list of 2016 looked like this:
1. Richards
2. Bloomquist
3. Pierce
4. Erb
5. Madden
6. McCreadie
T. McDowell
8. Clanton
9. Davenport
T. Sheppard

Not counting Madden it currently looks like this:

Top 5: WoO: 0, LOLMDS: 3
Top 10: WoO: 2, LOLMDS: 4

With Madden it would look like this:

Top 5: WoO: 1, LOLMDS: 3
Top 10: WoO: 3, LOLMDS: 4

I think Madden would be a great replacement for Richards on the WoO and it would definitely add some top level talent to the WoO which at this point is needed (I think many of the young drivers on the WoO will develop into top level talent over the next few years but I'm not expecting Tyler Erb, Moyer Jr, etc. to win several Crown Jewels in 2017 like Madden and Richards are capable of doing)

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Snake X3]

I definitely don't think that LOLMDS needs Madden more than WoO. Without Madden the WoO has no real top shelf drivers.

LOL...even when we agree, we disagree. I hear what you're saying. My point was that WoO has a very competitive series without Madden. I think Clanton wins the title but IMO B-Shep in the Rocket House car as well as Shirley could make it interesting. But the bigger point is WoO seems to be unofficially branding itself as a Young Guns tour. You add Madden to the mix and there will be less wins for the younger drivers, which...at least from my perspective, I'd be interested in seeing.

On the other hand, Lucas loses JD and B-Shep. They got Richards back. They still could really use another driver of Madden's caliber to fill that void. The series would be great even without him, but I wouldn't mind seeing him go toe to toe with the best and take JDs spot as the rep from the Southern region of the country.

[W2Racing09]

LOL...even when we agree, we disagree. I hear what you're saying. My point was that WoO has a very competitive series without Madden. I think Clanton wins the title but IMO B-Shep in the Rocket House car as well as Shirley could make it interesting. But the bigger point is WoO seems to be unofficially branding itself as a Young Guns tour. You add Madden to the mix and there will be less wins for the younger drivers, which...at least from my perspective, I'd be interested in seeing.

On the other hand, Lucas loses JD and B-Shep. They got Richards back. They still could really use another driver of Madden's caliber to fill that void. The series would be great even without him, but I wouldn't mind seeing him go toe to toe with the best and take JDs spot as the rep from the Southern region of the country.

I don't think branding themselves as the young guns tour was the goal, I think they are just working with the hand that they have currently.

The current WoO roster as it is would definitely be entertaining. But I don't think they have a draw type of drivers. Fans go to see guys like Owens, Richards, Bloomquist, Pierce, Davenport, Madden, etc. I think Tyler Erb and Eric Wells are awesome drivers, but they don't have the same level of drawing power. In order to continue booking big races I think the WoO will definitely need to bring a big name or two to the tour. They should be courting Pierce as well, I think the WoO would have the edge on LOLMDS if they had Pierce and Madden but as it stands they lost their biggest name and added some depth (Sheppard is a nice pickup, but he probably becomes the second best WoO driver currently behind Clanton) in exchange. In 5 years if we look back I bet we will look at the 2017 WoO roster and think it was one of the strongest ever, but I don't think it is going to sell more tickets in 2017 unfortunately. I'll be there whenever they are nearby for sure, I would just like to see a lot of other fans there too.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[plunks7]

My friends and I will be going to more WOO shows this year because Josh is not racing with them. We all agree Clanton is not a shoe in to Win the WOO title by a long shot. Equal playing field now.

[Snake X3]

I don't think branding themselves as the young guns tour was the goal, I think they are just working with the hand that they have currently.

The current WoO roster as it is would definitely be entertaining. But I don't think they have a draw type of drivers.

I have to agree with you on both items. I wasn't even thinking about the draw factor. Sure, I would be more likely to go see a WoO race if the younger guys has a real chance to win each week, but I know I don't think the way most fans do.

I also agree that Bobby Pierce would be the best addition to the series even if it ended up with him stinking up the show. I'd love to see a series with Pierce, Sheppard, Moran, Overton, Erb, The New Deal and Moyer Jr running for points each week. But again, that's just me.

[zach51]

I'm just not sure what is in it for Pierce to run a national tour other than just to shut up the haters. He can run 2-3 nights a week for 5,000 within a short drive from the house, and still hit all the big races he wants. Can't see him passing some 5k to win cherry picking (call it what you want) to go run against the Lucas Oil guys on the other side of the country and run 5th-8th some nights. I dunno, just my opinion. Same thing with Madden really, but he's more series ready I think.

[W2Racing09]

I'm just not sure what is in it for Pierce to run a national tour other than just to shut up the haters. He can run 2-3 nights a week for 5,000 within a short drive from the house, and still hit all the big races he wants. Can't see him passing some 5k to win cherry picking (call it what you want) to go run against the Lucas Oil guys on the other side of the country and run 5th-8th some nights. I dunno, just my opinion. Same thing with Madden really, but he's more series ready I think.

More money, provisional to some of the biggest races, access to more and higher profile sponsors, and probably most importantly for someone trying to make it to the next level of racing (NASCAR) is the exposure. I think it would be decidedly harder to land a big time financial backer, or be noticed by a NASCAR team if on the average Saturday night you are running for $3k at some little track in the Midwest. At least the LOLMDS and WoO shows get National Exposure for every race through DoD, and lots of other racing news outlets, etc. Another thing to gain would be business for the family company, there is a reason why all of the House Cars run a National tour. People in PA don't even see any Pierce chassis at all that often, let alone one winning all the time. If he wants to sell more chassis outside of the Midwest they will eventually need to start racing often in other areas as well. Just my .02 on the matter.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[zach51]

If he was worried about exposure to Nascar he would have not skipped the World Finals to sit at home. Sorry.

[W2Racing09]

If he was worried about exposure to Nascar he would have not skipped the World Finals to sit at home. Sorry.

"Sorry."?

I was responding to your post which I thought was the purpose of this board. No need to act so dismissive, especially since you addressed just one of my points.

So you are of the opinion that Bobby Pierce is not trying to make his way into NASCAR? I agree Charlotte probably would help in that pursuit, but its not like going to the World Finals is a requirement if you are trying to get exposure. Some races provide more bang for your buck (Eldora, DTWC, and other Crown Jewels) in terms of the earnings from the race and the exposure you receive. Especially since most of NASCAR (and its owners, and drivers) is out of town the weekend of the World Finals (I believe they were in Martinsville). Points racing makes it more profitable to drive all the way across the country to a $12k to win race (since you have a pretty good shot at picking up an additional $60-$100k at the end of the season for your troubles -- especially if you are Bobby Pierce).

Thanks,
Jeff.

[zach51]

I think we are on the same page. You claim there is value for him running a national series in regards to Nascar aspirations, maybe so. He should have raced at Charlotte. You act like nobody knows who he his. Everybody in Nascar that would be looking for somebody like him knows who he is. The problem is, Nascar is turning into Indycar, if you don't bring a sponsor with you, you ain't gonna have a ride. I doubt Champion is going to do 30 million per year to sponsor a car full time. Any truck race he has ran other than Eldora, he has stunk. And obviously he can wheel any type of car, that is not even a discussion anymore. He can drive. We all know that.

To answer your questions: Is Bobby trying to get to nascar? Probably, who isn't? But is that his top priority? Nah I don't think so.

Is the World Finals a requirement? No, but if you are trying to swing your D*ck in front of Nascar people, yes it probably is.

I'd argue that if he was full time on a tour, he would not be as well exposed as he already is. Darrell Lanigan was hot stuff until he moved to Lucas and got railroaded. Speaking of Lanigan, he also didn't work out on asphalt.

[W2Racing09]

I think we are on the same page. You claim there is value for him running a national series in regards to Nascar aspirations, maybe so. He should have raced at Charlotte. You act like nobody knows who he his. Everybody in Nascar that would be looking for somebody like him knows who he is. The problem is, Nascar is turning into Indycar, if you don't bring a sponsor with you, you ain't gonna have a ride. I doubt Champion is going to do 30 million per year to sponsor a car full time. Any truck race he has ran other than Eldora, he has stunk. And obviously he can wheel any type of car, that is not even a discussion anymore. He can drive. We all know that.

To answer your questions: Is Bobby trying to get to nascar? Probably, who isn't? But is that his top priority? Nah I don't think so.

Is the World Finals a requirement? No, but if you are trying to swing your D*ck in front of Nascar people, yes it probably is.

I'd argue that if he was full time on a tour, he would not be as well exposed as he already is. Darrell Lanigan was hot stuff until he moved to Lucas and got railroaded. Speaking of Lanigan, he also didn't work out on asphalt.

If Bobby Pierce considers himself to be only as good as Darrell Lanigan was last season then he probably should just stick to running regionally -- I agree. However, I think Bobby could jump on the WoO (even potentially running against Madden week to week) and be a shoe in for a top 2 spot and probably the favorite over Madden, Sheppard and Clanton to win the whole thing. That is a pretty big boost in exposure over winning the The Hell Tour, or UMP National Championship which are only well known in the Midwest or by hardcore fans who are going to know about most of this stuff anyway.

One of the biggest reasons to run on tour would be selling more cars in more areas, if NASCAR isn't the primary goal then helping his family make more money probably has to be -- or at least is pretty close to the top. I see Capital cars gaining traction here in PA, despite being located in GA. I see Club 29 cars around quite a bit too, located in KY. I see Longhorn cars all over the place they are from NC. I rarely see new Pierce cars anywhere around the Mid Atlantic -- the difference, all those others chassis have House Cars running Nationally and getting all of that attention. I would be surprised if the same can't be said for most regions. Winning the World 100, and N/S will certainly help sell some cars all over -- but not as much as weekly drivers watching Pierce run away with races and setting track records against the best drivers in the country on their home track would.

I don't see how it makes sense for Pierce to continuously toil away racing in the Midwest for the rest of his career. He is at the top of what he can do racing in the Midwest already, there is nowhere to go but down as far as that goes since he has already done everything that can be done. Winning an LOLMDS or WoO championship should be the next logical thing to scratch off the list.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Ryan21mid]

I'm not sure selling a bunch of cars is their goal. And unless the quality increases the idea of it is pointless anyway. I've heard some bad stories about the Pierce cars and with several drivers jumping in them and right back out the past few years solidifies that. I think Bobby is just a fearless wheelman and he'd be fast in anything you put him in. I don't think he could jump on the WoO tour and be a shoe in for the title but I'd say a top 5 contender. He has had success outside of the midwest, yes, but its been spotty. That being said, I do think he is ready for the next step, and a new challenge. Hopefully the money comes along to allow him to progress.

[Ryan21mid]

And I'm not throwing blows at Bobby or the cars. But there's no way at this point in time that they can consistently outperform that Rocket 1 Team with Sheppy at the helm, or Clanton's Capital Championship winning team.

[zach51]

I agree with most everything you said there Jeff, I just don't know if he would be as good on a tour as we think. He'd definitely have to alter his checkers or wreckers mentality. He'd have to learn that some nights 10th may be as good as you are and you have to be OK with that and not blow apart your equipment trying to get one or two extra spots. He does have good results on the Summernationals, but I think being young and wired up most definitely help him out. On a national tour where your veterans have weeks to massage their setups instead of putting new quarter panels on the car, we have yet to see if they can hang. But again, he has made it plenty obvious he can drop in and twirl the top cars in the country from time to time, but could he on a regular basis? I hope so, but who knows.

[W2Racing09]

I agree with most everything you said there Jeff, I just don't know if he would be as good on a tour as we think. He'd definitely have to alter his checkers or wreckers mentality. He'd have to learn that some nights 10th may be as good as you are and you have to be OK with that and not blow apart your equipment trying to get one or two extra spots. He does have good results on the Summernationals, but I think being young and wired up most definitely help him out. On a national tour where your veterans have weeks to massage their setups instead of putting new quarter panels on the car, we have yet to see if they can hang. But again, he has made it plenty obvious he can drop in and twirl the top cars in the country from time to time, but could he on a regular basis? I hope so, but who knows.

Well, lets hope then that someday we will get to find the answer to all of these questions if he jumps on one of the tours. I do agree, maybe I am overvaluing his performance a bit in saying that he is a shoe-in for the top 2. Maybe I'm just being extra-optimistic today.