Pre-Season Dirt On Dirt - TOP 25 Driver Rankings.

[COKEandaSMILE]

It's all good. Like you say, It's only someones opinion. You guys do a pretty good job. The only flaw I see with DoD pols are that they tend to lean on the what happened this week but kind of forget from what someone has done earlier in the season.

It's a weekly poll, so you're correct. When a driver is hot for a particular week, they will move up the standings despite what struggles they may have had leading up to that point.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

It's all good. Like you say, It's only someones opinion. You guys do a pretty good job. The only flaw I see with DoD pols are that they tend to lean on the what happened this week but kind of forget from what someone has done earlier in the season.

As someone has stated, it's weekly. Then at the end of the year they release their driver of the year poll.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Good job by Rigsby calling for Bloomquist to win the Lucas series and wielding his influence to keep Josh out of the top 3....helps cover his unabashed bias for Josh when he votes him #1 the rest of the season.

Because Josh has been running so poorly that he doesn't deserve to ever be voted number one. If you had Bloomer, Richards, and Bobby as your number one last year at various times you could never be questioned as being wrong. Unless you have a chubby for one of them. Which you have stated before you don't like the Rocket camp.

[pink floyd]

He started to travel towards the end of last year. He went to Eldora, DTWC, Charlotte, won the race at Richmond. I think they plan to do a little more traveling this year and I think he will tear up the regional scene around the Mid Ohio Valley this year.

tyler will be chasing boggs all season, but he does have a very bright future ahead of him. best of luck to him this year.

[Snake X3]

Because Josh has been running so poorly that he doesn't deserve to ever be voted number one. If you had Bloomer, Richards, and Bobby as your number one last year at various times you could never be questioned as being wrong. Unless you have a chubby for one of them. Which you have stated before you don't like the Rocket camp.

It's not the Rocket camp, it's Josh. And it's not Josh personally (I don't know the man), it's the way he drives that I don't like. But that's not that point. Richards was the unanimous #1 pick almost every week. Unanimous. I am not going to look back to verify this, but I'm pretty sure he was #1 every week except for two. I seem to remember Bloomer was #1 by a 7-3 vote once and I think 9-1 another time. My point being, pick any 10 people on here and how often do you think that would have been the case?

For sure you could argue that the 10 member panel is more knowledgeable than any 10 people on here, but Josh didn't have some ridiculously amazing season like JD did the year before and I don't remember JD being the unanimous pick virtually every week. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that it is group think.

So unless you are arguing that Richards had a season from start to finish that was so one sided that he deserved to be the unanimous #1 pick almost every week. then last season the polling was seriously slanted either in composition or by influence.

[flagone]

Well here are the actual statistics

There were 38 polls including the preseason (one week off because of weather).

Josh was #1 26 times and unanimously only 15.

Scott was #1 11 times and unanimously only twice

Davenport was #1 in the pre-season poll

Josh won 8 TIMES in Speedweeks (1 win in a crate) all except the crate win were head to head with Scott & JD.

Scott took the #1 spot for the 1st time in week 12 when he won WoO at Smoky Mountain head to head with the other 2. Josh was 3rd. Scott remained #1 through week 16 even after a bad weekend in week 14. He dropped to 3rd after missing the Dream where Josh was 2nd and JD 3rd.

Josh stayed #1 for 17, 18 & 19. Scott went back to #1 in week 20 after his Firecracker victory and back to back Lucas wins. Josh fell to 2nd after finishing 2nd in Firecracker and winning a Summer Nats race. Scott stayed on top through week 23 but fell to 2nd in week 24 after Josh swept the Prairie Dirt Classic weekend.

Josh maintained the #1 spot for through week 31 after sweeping at Cedar Lake, sweeping the next weekend with 3 WoO wins, 11th in the World 100 and winning a Knoxville prelim.

In week 32 Scott returned to #1 after his Brownstown win. Pierce jumps to 2nd after the World 100 win and sweeping Summer Nats at Tri-City. Josh was off after the World. Scott held #1 again in week 33 with a 3rd at Dixie and win at Rome. Pierce stayed 2nd with a 6th in the Fall Nationals at Eldora while Josh was off again.

In week 34 Josh returned to the #1 spot with his Pittsburgher win head to head with Scott and JD. Scott was 2nd. Pierce had a win and a 3rd but fell to 3rd. The next week Josh was 3rd at the DTWC while Scott was 11th and Pierce DNQ.

In week 36 Josh was off. Scott was 2nd at Whynot unsanctioned. Pierce wins the Fall 50 at Florence.

Week 37 saw Josh win and finish 12th at Charlotte, Both the 0 and 32 were off.

In week 38 only Scott raced. He was 8th at EAMS's National 100.

So where in that is there any influence other than performance. Richards had better finishes in 75% of the events where the top 3 were head to head. 75%. Scott missing the Dream and then not eligible for the World and World Finals was certainly impactful but that has nothing to do with Richards. Josh had 28 wins on the year.

[NormP]

For sure you could argue that the 10 member panel is more knowledgeable than any 10 people on here...

I doubt that seriously. They just happen to write/be affiliated with dirt on dirt.

[Pennsboro23]

I doubt that seriously. They just happen to write/be affiliated with dirt on dirt.

I agree with this 100 percent. Not knocking the DOD crew, because they're great. But there are just as many people on here with the same amount of knowledge, they just don't happen to get the opportunity to work for DOD or other sites to showcase it. I wouldn't take anyone's dirt late model knowledge over my own.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How can they judge his ride and team in a preseason poll if he hasn't officially raced yet.

Its preseason. You have to go with what you know. The Best Team is basically unchanged except for the driver. Richards is in basically the same car, with a less desirable power plant, and without his father, compared to a season ago.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I agree with this 100 percent. Not knocking the DOD crew, because they're great. But there are just as many people on here with the same amount of knowledge, they just don't happen to get the opportunity to work for DOD or other sites to showcase it. I wouldn't take anyone's dirt late model knowledge over my own.

Agreed. There are plenty of people who know plenty of the scoop and know what it takes under the sheet metal.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

It's not the Rocket camp, it's Josh. And it's not Josh personally (I don't know the man), it's the way he drives that I don't like. But that's not that point. Richards was the unanimous #1 pick almost every week. Unanimous. I am not going to look back to verify this, but I'm pretty sure he was #1 every week except for two. I seem to remember Bloomer was #1 by a 7-3 vote once and I think 9-1 another time. My point being, pick any 10 people on here and how often do you think that would have been the case?

For sure you could argue that the 10 member panel is more knowledgeable than any 10 people on here, but Josh didn't have some ridiculously amazing season like JD did the year before and I don't remember JD being the unanimous pick virtually every week. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that it is group think.

So unless you are arguing that Richards had a season from start to finish that was so one sided that he deserved to be the unanimous #1 pick almost every week. then last season the polling was seriously slanted either in composition or by influence.

Well here are the actual statistics

There were 38 polls including the preseason (one week off because of weather).

Josh was #1 26 times and unanimously only 15.

Scott was #1 11 times and unanimously only twice

Davenport was #1 in the pre-season poll

Josh won 8 TIMES in Speedweeks (1 win in a crate) all except the crate win were head to head with Scott & JD.

Scott took the #1 spot for the 1st time in week 12 when he won WoO at Smoky Mountain head to head with the other 2. Josh was 3rd. Scott remained #1 through week 16 even after a bad weekend in week 14. He dropped to 3rd after missing the Dream where Josh was 2nd and JD 3rd.

Josh stayed #1 for 17, 18 & 19. Scott went back to #1 in week 20 after his Firecracker victory and back to back Lucas wins. Josh fell to 2nd after finishing 2nd in Firecracker and winning a Summer Nats race. Scott stayed on top through week 23 but fell to 2nd in week 24 after Josh swept the Prairie Dirt Classic weekend.

Josh maintained the #1 spot for through week 31 after sweeping at Cedar Lake, sweeping the next weekend with 3 WoO wins, 11th in the World 100 and winning a Knoxville prelim.

In week 32 Scott returned to #1 after his Brownstown win. Pierce jumps to 2nd after the World 100 win and sweeping Summer Nats at Tri-City. Josh was off after the World. Scott held #1 again in week 33 with a 3rd at Dixie and win at Rome. Pierce stayed 2nd with a 6th in the Fall Nationals at Eldora while Josh was off again.

In week 34 Josh returned to the #1 spot with his Pittsburgher win head to head with Scott and JD. Scott was 2nd. Pierce had a win and a 3rd but fell to 3rd. The next week Josh was 3rd at the DTWC while Scott was 11th and Pierce DNQ.

In week 36 Josh was off. Scott was 2nd at Whynot unsanctioned. Pierce wins the Fall 50 at Florence.

Week 37 saw Josh win and finish 12th at Charlotte, Both the 0 and 32 were off.

In week 38 only Scott raced. He was 8th at EAMS's National 100.

So where in that is there any influence other than performance. Richards had better finishes in 75% of the events where the top 3 were head to head. 75%. Scott missing the Dream and then not eligible for the World and World Finals was certainly impactful but that has nothing to do with Richards. Josh had 28 wins on the year.

And Kelley did the leg work for me, thanks Kelley.

[Snake X3]

Well here are the actual statistics

There were 38 polls including the preseason (one week off because of weather).

Josh was #1 26 times and unanimously only 15.

Scott was #1 11 times and unanimously only twice

After watching the race tonight it got me to thinking about how'll the drivers are ranking so far and it reminded me of this thread. Sorry I hadn't seen your reply sooner.

First, I have a lot of respect for you, Kelly and I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such detail. It really wasn't necessary though. Second, if I made it sound like there was some nefarious dealings that lead to the poll results, that wasn't how I intended it to sound. I simply believe that like most people, the voters are swayed by Rigsby's opinion or were independently pre-disposed to favor Richards.

Rigsby's a smart guy. His opinion carries weight. I'm sure it carries even more weight with the people he works with and knows well. Especially considering how strongly Rigsby felt about Josh being the top driver, it's hard to believe that didn't influence the results when they weren't nearly as close as the actual racing proved out. By that I mean Josh simply wasn't that dominant to deserve the overwhelming selections week to week as #1. It's not that he was deserving of being #1 in any given week, it's a matter of the degree he gained that distinction proved out by the total #1 votes received for the year by Josh vs Scott vs Pierce vs JD over the course of the season.

So my point was the poll was seriously slanted in terms of degree and although it wasn't quite as slanted from the unanimous votes perspective as I thought, it was still a lot more lopsided than it should have been in my OPINION.

And as far as the 28 wins...yeah yeah...great at any level, so was Scott's 22 or whatever it was. Does that sound like a 15 to 1 unanimous vote by week? And say what you like, last season WoO was not nearly as competitive top to bottom as the Lucas series was. After Richards and Clanton, the WoO drivers were an after thought when it came to pre-race favorites at all the major events while the top drivers were largely the Lucas boys. IMO that seriously diminishes the value of Josh's win total. I was far more impressed with Scott winning 15 Lucas races than Josh wining 18 or whatever WoO races.

Did Richards deserve to be #1? I'd say so. But IN MY OPINION if the difference between Scott and Josh was so close, then there wouldn't have been such a one-sided vote for the top driver each week. It's a matter of magnitude that makes the poll seem so silly. The number of #1 votes Scott got is not representative of how close the decision in favor of Richards was supposed to be. If it was really that close (and it really was) then you'd expect a more balanced result from 10 people thinking independently. Again, I doubt I could even find 10 people that would agree on the question from week to week. DoD managed to find it in favor of Josh 15 times alone!!

Whatever the reason, be it group think or just a crazy random thing, it makes people question the results. And to hear Rigsby tell it he caught hell from people every week about the poll. That doesn't sound like the fans thought the poll should have been as unanimous and lopsided. And if I didn't hear a lot of other people saying that they thought the poll was seriously lopsided, I might think it was just me.

And just so you don't misunderstand, I think Rigsby goes out of his way to be objective with his coverage of the sport. I don't for a minute believe his opinion or the poll results had anything to do with being influenced by money or anything else. However I do believe his fervent belief Josh deserved to be #1 had some influence over the people that were selected to participate in the poll.

That's my opinion. I respect yours. I don't really care to debate it...no disrespect. You have your opinion. You are part of the group that votes. I'll just take your word for it.

Thanks again...sincerely.