Is Dirt Racing a threat to NASCAR

[CIRF]

The current Marquee events in Dirt (Knoxville Nationals for sprints, World 100 for Lates), don't sell out (Knoxville hasn't sold out for 15 years now and according to Eldora Speedway, the Truck Race is their highest attended event, so obviously that means the World doesn't sell out).

There is one other marquee event run on dirt and it sells out to the tune of 15,000 people for 5 straight nights. Probably more like 16 to 17 thousand if the folks who can't get tickets and buy pit passes and watch on the pit side jumbo-tron are counted. It takes place at Tulsa in January.

Dirt racing hurting NASCAR? The extent is probably minimal. There was a day back in the 1990's up to around 2004 when the fandom of both dirt late models and NASCAR overlapped extensively but no more. These days on a Saturday night at FALS it's hard to find anyone who cares enough about NASCAR even to know who's starting on the pole for Sunday's Cup race. On the same token most hard core NASCAR fans seem to take little interest in late model racing.

The dirt open wheel fans never really took much interest in NASCAR. Still don't accept to see where the dirt open wheel guys that have made the transition are fairing on any given weekend.

[vande077]

There is one other marquee event run on dirt and it sells out to the tune of 15,000 people for 5 straight nights. Probably more like 16 to 17 thousand if the folks who can't get tickets and buy pit passes and watch on the pit side jumbo-tron are counted. It takes place at Tulsa in January.

Dirt racing hurting NASCAR? The extent is probably minimal. There was a day back in the 1990's up to around 2004 when the fandom of both dirt late models and NASCAR overlapped extensively but no more. These days on a Saturday night at FALS it's hard to find anyone who cares enough about NASCAR even to know who's starting on the pole for Sunday's Cup race. On the same token most hard core NASCAR fans seem to take little interest in late model racing.

The dirt open wheel fans never really took much interest in NASCAR. Still don't accept to see where the dirt open wheel guys that have made the transition are fairing on any given weekend.

Yes, Tulsa sells out, but it has factors in it's favor: No other racing going on in the USA (no NASCAR, no IndyCar, no short track racing, no drag racing, etc.) and draws fans from all of those forms of racing that week. But, no matter how you slice it, it's still the same 15000 people every day, it's not 75,000 people.

Another factor that helps it in interest is NASCAR guys racing: whether people want to admit it or not, some go to watch Kasey, Kyle, Christopher Bell, Rico and others get beat or if they win they want to say they were there for it.

Indoors, ZERO CHANCE of it raining out or getting cancelled.

Longevity: What is it now, year 34? Most dirt events (other than Knoxville and Eldora) seem to make it past year 5 anymore.

IMO, dirt racing has ZERO CHANCE of ever overtaking NASCAR. I'm not saying NASCAR has a better product (they don't), but casual fans will go to a NASCAR race because it's an EVENT. Most Dirt Track racing misses that by a mile...

[kidrock]

There is one other marquee event run on dirt and it sells out to the tune of 15,000 people for 5 straight nights. Probably more like 16 to 17 thousand if the folks who can't get tickets and buy pit passes and watch on the pit side jumbo-tron are counted. It takes place at Tulsa in January.

Dirt racing hurting NASCAR? The extent is probably minimal. There was a day back in the 1990's up to around 2004 when the fandom of both dirt late models and NASCAR overlapped extensively but no more. These days on a Saturday night at FALS it's hard to find anyone who cares enough about NASCAR even to know who's starting on the pole for Sunday's Cup race. On the same token most hard core NASCAR fans seem to take little interest in late model racing.

The dirt open wheel fans never really took much interest in NASCAR. Still don't accept to see where the dirt open wheel guys that have made the transition are fairing on any given weekend.

One of my friends loved Nascar and had only been to a few dirt races and didn't care for it. For one his wife said the bathrooms are nasty and it's to dirty and he would say if I want laid tonight I have to agree with her lol.

[Snake X3]

My guess, after exposure, is that all racing is in a decline. NASCAR is the most high profile and in decline for a number of reasons but dirt racing attendance has gone downhill over the past five years or so too. A few of my local tracks are doing good to even stay open when one looks at the stands on a weekly basis.

I agree that weekly attendance may not be doing well, but look at the crowds that Lucas was drawing last season. There was hardly an event where the stands weren't packed to capacity. For weekly shows Super Lates may have gotten to expensive to be a viable division, but on the national level and special events things seem to be going in the right direction.

[Mantis]

Longevity: What is it now, year 34? Most dirt events (other than Knoxville and Eldora) seem to make it past year 5 anymore.

I'm sure you know this but Knoxville and Eldora are not the only dirt tracks with a deep history that continues to run their marque events.

[CIRF]

Yes, Tulsa sells out, but it has factors in it's favor: No other racing going on in the USA (no NASCAR, no IndyCar, no short track racing, no drag racing, etc.) and draws fans from all of those forms of racing that week. But, no matter how you slice it, it's still the same 15000 people every day, it's not 75,000 people.

No other racing going on in the USA? IIRC there is a quasi large dirt late model event going on at the same time. Doesn't really matter who buys the tickets, it's a sell out 5 nights in a row and has been for a decade.

Another factor that helps it in interest is NASCAR guys racing: whether people want to admit it or not, some go to watch Kasey, Kyle, Christopher Bell, Rico and others get beat or if they win they want to say they were there for it.

I've been to a bunch of them and it's a safe bet that 90% to 95% of the crowd are hard core dirt open wheel fans. I've yet to run into a NASCAR or drag racing fan at Tulsa who said they were there because there was nothing better to do, racing-wise.

Indoors, ZERO CHANCE of it raining out or getting cancelled.

Gotta' agree with this aspect of the experience. It's very nice to know that there will be no rain out's. However, a few years ago the December indoor event at Du Quoin was cancelled due to a blizzard.

Longevity: What is it now, year 34? Most dirt events (other than Knoxville and Eldora) seem to make it past year 5 anymore.

January 2018 will be the 33rd. Turkey Night Grand Prix has been run at several different tracks 76 times with the only breaks were during WW II (1942-1944) and four years in the early 1950's. The 4 Crown Nationals at Eldora have been around for 35 years. Belleville Nationals have been around for 40 years.

IMO, dirt racing has ZERO CHANCE of ever overtaking NASCAR. I'm not saying NASCAR has a better product (they don't), but casual fans will go to a NASCAR race because it's an EVENT. Most Dirt Track racing misses that by a mile...

No doubt about it. Agree with every word.

[Hoosier_Dirt]

DLM racing is in no way threatening Nascar. Late models are headed in the wrong direction too race wise, until they do something with those bodies.

[Highside Hustler25]

I figured this article would rile quite a few different opinions. Some are narrowing this down to Late Models. I think the writer is referring to dirt racing in general. Sprints, Lates. Mods, Street Stocks. Dirt racing as a whole is doing well in my opinion. All I see is tracks reopening around the Midwest. Some are doing better than others but as a whole, their are a lot of tracks out there.
I remember reading once that if you count how many dirt tracks run on Saturday night in the good ole USA, multiply that by 500-800 fans, it's one of the largest fan based sport today. So in reality, their are more Dirt Fans than NASCAR fans when it comes to attending a race.

[Bubstr]

If there is something wrong with LM dirt racing, it is all the knee jerk cookie cutter rules, that try to limit everyone to the same speed. Every one increases costs in the long run and if they all run the same speed, how does anyone pass the next guy. If you really think about it, you want someone with an advantage for a while and when the next best idea comes along, someone else is fast. You don't want that next idea in the hands of a race team that has their hands tied by knee jerk rules. Seems we need a rule for this and a rule for that, but if they can't or won't get enforced, they are bad rules and need to be discarded.

[vande077]

I'm sure you know this but Knoxville and Eldora are not the only dirt tracks with a deep history that continues to run their marque events.

What I meant by my statement was that to a casual race fan (maybe a fan of NHRA or NASCAR, but not necessarily dirt racing) knows about Knoxville and Eldora (and the Chili Bowl). Other marquee events aren't as well known outside of their own little world in racing. Until Knoxville started holding the Late Model Nationals, the only big Late Model races I was aware of were The World 100 and The Dream. I was a race fan, but I had never heard of the DTWC until then.

I know that the Knoxville Nationals is well known across multiple forms of motorsports (heck, NHRA guys gather around at the bar to watch it (my sister was a NHRA Official). The World 100 was well known but the track probably was more well known than the race itself for a long time.

There are many other marquee events out there, but they don't move the needle nationally outside of their own niche.

The only way Dirt Track Racing ever overtakes NASCAR is if NASCAR goes out of business.

[vande077]

Eldora sells lots of tickets without seats for their LM events. I don't think a sellout is possible.

Funny, they "sold out" when they ran the first truck race (20,000) and said that is still "to date" the highest attended race at the track including all of their events (World, Dream, King's Royal, Eldora Million, Mopar Million). Lots of those tickets went to people that didn't have "seats" either.

Everyone gets sold a ticket whether they buy a reserved seat in the grandstand or not. I'll take the track's word on what their highest attended event was over anyone else.

Tony has mentioned that they will never sell more tickets to any event than they did that night.

[Cardirt0]

NASCAR 80 bucks cheap seat Burger ff and drink 20 to 25 bucks Over my head
Big dirt race 25 30 or even 35 bucks Can live with that But been there the last 5 weeks and the Burger ff and drink was 7 bucks and now it 12 bucks is what piss me off...