I'm Not Much On Gimmicks, But.......

[Kwd1253]

I can see both sides fastest car start in first 3 rows. You put slower guys up front they get ran over. but at same time I like seen fastest cars come from the back. They should let pole sitter pick line up right before the race starts. Fastest in front or slowest in front. If fastest in the back, double points or 1.5 times the points for each spots. Or bounces money, of course if its train race track it wouldn't work out good.

Or have pole sitter and 2nd sitter if they start from back double points for them and bounce money. It would be more entrainment for fans and give someone the chance catch up in points. Risk and reward system deal.

[Krooser]

dirtcrazy.... when I went broke during my last foray into promoting I ran two classes at my little 100 year old horse track turned speedway...four bangers and streeters. Didn't think I could get any IMCA guys to run unsanctioned even on an off night (Thursday).

I paid my streeters $300 to win if we had 12 cars... $250 otherwise. $100 to 10th place. $60-50-40 in the dash and heats. Most had never heard the term 'trophy dash'... none had ever seen heat $$$. The eventual track champ had a $250.00 Pontiac enduro car. He took home $500 one night. Still couldn't get guys to come...

I ran the hell outta the guys that did run...everyone ran a dash and two heats plus the main. I ran 'back-up' races... I pitted the 4 cyls. against the streeters in a six lap deal with the small cars getting a half lap headstart... they were never beat!

I did have a crappy race surface but I stressed if you guys support me for five weeks I'll have enough cash to resurface the track... didn't happen. So I was forced to bail... lost $29,000 in five nights counting all the improvements I did to the fairgrounds.

Stuff happens...

[TheJet-09]

101 ways to skin a cat I guess! I raced at Freeport (IL) way back when, and we didn't qualify. Our dash was the top six from the previous weeks feature. Those six also had their own heat with two additions (the front row), which I honestly cannot remember how they were chosen. But our feature line-up was the top two in the other two heats making up the front two rows, then the "fast heat" cars (the six from the dash plus the two), and the heat finishers from 3rd on back from there.

Yeah Krooser, I certainly miss the days of $ from heat races. I used to clean house in those scenarios, and actually remember feeling a little hurt financially when we had a rainout or two. That probably didn't help with your $29K loss though!

And Zach51, I certainly can relate to your story of the old invert days. I was out of racing for about 11 years when I made my return in 2013. The April special out at 34 Raceway (Burlington, IA) was the first I could make that year. It was a Cornbelt race and we drew for starting spots. I drew the outside pole of a heat. Like a macho dork, I kept my starting spot. My long hiatus showed as I was in last by the time we exited turn two. What an idiot! Luckily nothing got tore up.

But with my saying it's killed racing for the little guy, I'm talking about straight up starts in heats at weekly tracks. If someone's not capable of winning a race, they're just not going to win. But you used to be able to show up with substandard equipment, qualify slow, then start up front in a heat and actually win one here or there. That keeps you interested! You get your picture taken. You show up at work Monday morning and people ask, "How'd racing go?" And with a smile you can't wait to say, "I won my heat!" It keeps you coming back for more is all.

Now in my fifth year of this "return to racing," I show up every week knowing I will not win so much as a heat race. My own fault? Sure, and I'm not looking for any handouts, but my best chance to win anything would come in a B-Main, and I don't want to be in that race in the first place. I live on moral victories, but even those don't do it after a while.

Is that scenario good for either the racers or the fans? Are people not tired of seeing the same three or four guys win every week at their local track?

Back in the day I'd head out to East Moline every now and then on Sundays. We also didn't qualify there. They had a rule where the winner from last week started no better than something like tenth (the exact position slips my mind), but either way, I think we had 7 different winners in the first 7 weeks of racing. And that was with guys like Gary Webb, who then had something like 13 championships (not to slight Gary, but I don't know what he ultimately ended up with overall). I doubt Gary ever complained about inverted starts. For him, it was part of the job, it made him who he was.

[fryefan]

Passing point or inverts provide the best racing.

A prime example is that the MLRA shows at Donnellson, IA. During the 2015 & 2016 seasons, when MLRA was still a passing point format series, those shows were some of the best races of the year. However, this year they went to the Lucas Oil format and the 2 MLRA shows there were not very good. In fact as one blogger pointed out Chris Simpson won both races and never passed a car for position (he did pass some lap cars) in either show (heats and A-features). That is not a knock on Chris at all (I was happy to see him in victory lane), but the racing was poor. At both shows the racing in the other 5 classes (all with inverts or redraws) was very good.

[fryefan]

Also, the MARS series switched to the "freight-train" format this year as well and the racing has went downhill in my opinion.

[Illtsate32]

Back in the day they would invert qualifying for the heats then the dash winner would roll dice and whatever number 1-6 they would invert..rows..so if you didnt have a good heat you could still end up on the front row of the feature...the racing was great then stands were packed every week...why not do the same with the touring series? Too much entitlement these days people think races should be handed to them because how much money they have in their car or because of who they are...

[fryefan]

There is a lot to not like about IMCA, but there weekly race format is hard to beat. When they have full fields, the top 12 qualifiers from the heats are inverted for their feature race (based upon season track points) and they have some awesome features as the cream usually rises to the top.

[fryefan]

Back in the day they would invert qualifying for the heats then the dash winner would roll dice and whatever number 1-6 they would invert..rows..so if you didnt have a good heat you could still end up on the front row of the feature...the racing was great then stands were packed every week...why not do the same with the touring series? Too much entitlement these days people think races should be handed to them because how much money they have in their car or because of who they are...

The last sentence of your post says it all.

[zach51]

The MARS racing has indeed gone in the crapper for the most part.

[jeffreymo]

Also, the MARS series switched to the "freight-train" format this year as well and the racing has went downhill in my opinion.

Absolutely.

[Bubstr]

I like the double draw passing points format ad at least a 50 lap race. I believe it actually changes the track, by not running all those time trials on the same groove. It widens the track and helps to eliminate the rubber down groove. The track still has to be prepped right, but it definitely helps those tracks that go south quickly.

As far as 100 lap races. the Knoxville format is the thing. Best of two nights qualifying, points for TT and heat finish and invert 10 in the heats. If you like passing, those heats are the bomb. You still have a hundred laps to make up for any mistakes on qualifying nights on a Saturday track that hasn't been TT on.

There is no one size fits all. Each track holds and gives back moisture at different rates. On can be a bottomless pit for water and another, you can see it seeping to the surface during intermission. Some will need a major overhaul to compete with the supremo tracks.

[coolfool_2]

Gimmicks may work better on the big shows rather than at your weekly shows. We pill draw in our Limited Late class each week and cars seemingly get tore up each Saturday due to drivers starting up front that have no business being up there. At the touring events, at least around here, the locals with no chance of finishing top 10 usually dont show. The best of the best are there racing and seemingly would be able to handle inverts...etc all while giving the fans a better show.

[vande077]

My home track (Knoxville) shook things up this year for our weekly events and it's led to great racing.

All cars time trial, invert of 6 in the heat. You get points for time trials and your heat finish. Features are lined up by total points and the top point guy draws a pill for an invert of 0,4,6 or 8 after the heats are completed.

No one sandbags in Time Trials and the heats mean something. I think one guy has won 7 of his 8 heat races from the 3rd row and has timed in the top 3 every week. He's been fortunate enough to have the 6 invert drawn all but 2 weeks (one week was a 0 and he didn't win, other week was an 8). He's won 3 features this year so far. Another driver with similar TT and heat finishes has won 4 features.

Last weekend a guy won from 9th in the 360 sprint division (18 lap feature), 410 feature winner from front row, but the guys that started on the front row exchanged the lead 20+ times during the first 8 laps of the feature.

[MissouriMadMan]

the mars racing has indeed gone in the crapper for the most part.

mars has only gone down hill since mr. Starr sold it to dirt back around 03. As far as the format change for mlra i was told that the drivers asked for the change because it's wear on equiptment...... I think more fans like passing points and drivers like timing in and straight up top however many straight to the a-main out of the heats.

[klemmabyna]

greatly enjoying this thread and the intelligent discussion.

just a fan in the stands. and I want to watch racers race.

no time trials. pill draw and passing points. USMTS format works great over a complete season.

I understand there is a wide range of track configurations and quality prep. maybe some of those places don't deserve to host big events.

so how about a shortlist of race tracks that consistently provide conditions that allow racers to race from the back to the front?

vande077: only Knoxville fans have it as good as you!!!